Top
Best
New

Posted by Red_Tarsius 2 hours ago

Iranians describe scenes of catastrophe after Tehran's oil depots bombed(www.theguardian.com)
61 points | 99 comments
keiferski 1 hour ago|
This whole situation made me realize that the mechanism for holding presidents accountable for campaign promises really doesn’t exist. None of this is what people voted for, and is almost directly the opposite. That isn’t a new thing, of course, but this seems like a pretty huge turnaround from what the campaign was about.

This seems like a fundamental problem with the system to me. If you can’t count on the candidate to at least attempt sticking to campaign promises, then the entire process is irrational.

Presumably the mechanism is supposed to be Congress and impeachment, but that doesn’t work if the president is directly influencing their election campaigns.

I do wonder if / how something could be implemented that addresses this, beyond just losing at the next election.

John23832 57 minutes ago||
That mechanism used to be shame.
ikr678 1 hour ago|||
This used to be the job of the third estate, but traditional media has all been captured and the algorithms have done the rest, drowning us in a sea of content.
kdheiwns 58 minutes ago|||
A lot of people voted on a platform of pissing off a lot of people. A lot of people are pissed. Polls on the day of the invasion indicated a lack of support; since then a lot of people have shown that they're pissed, and now that voter base is supporting the admin and these actions because they see people getting pissed.

It sounds petty and dumb. Unfortunately, that's what's happening. 44% support the invasion. [1] That's identical to the constant 40-45% support the admin has had since day one. There has been no change in support and there never will be. There's absolutely no convincing them, leaving us with the only option of figuring out how we're supposed to deal with a country where nearly half the population has a mindset no different from willing kamikaze pilots.

[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/majority-of-americ...

lukan 53 minutes ago||
The source seems bad, for some reasons they added the 10% of "unsure" to "supports".

"the new survey found 56% of Americans oppose U.S. military action in Iran, while 44% support it."

But later:

"A majority -- 54% -- of Americans disapprove of how Trump is handling Iran. Another 36% approve and 10% are unsure"

36% support it.

kdheiwns 51 minutes ago||
They're different questions. One is whether they support the way Trump is doing it. The other is whether they support a war overall.

Their reason for supporting a war but not the way Trump is doing it could range from it being too extreme to not being extreme enough. Some people unironically want nuclear weapons to be dropped and will settle for nothing less.

lukan 45 minutes ago||
I missed that, but then it is still not correct to say 44% support the invasion. In a very different framework (clear plan, cooperation with iranian opposition, working exile government, transition plan ..) I also can see myself supporting military action against the religious fanatics in power in Iran. But this invasion I do not support.
spankalee 1 hour ago|||
The US needs a parliamentary system. Trump would have been dumped already. Instead we have to wait 3 more years to end this insanity.
jjgreen 44 minutes ago|||
Are you sure? https://www.draftbarrontrump.com/
stef25 1 hour ago|||
> Instead we have to wait 3 more years to end this insanity.

Pray that you'll see the end of it in 3 years. It would be surprise if that ship can be turned around.

whycombigator 25 minutes ago|||
Pray? Is this the new federalized form of voting for November and onward?
kakacik 56 minutes ago|||
My gut feeling is that next person after him (if he actually gives up office which is in land of wishful thinking at this point) may be worse, and even visibly worse and US folks will still vote for him/her.

I sure hope my gut is wildly incorrect this time, for me, you, and mankind overall.

Neil44 1 hour ago|||
Pretty big assumption you're making, that you know what people voted for.
keiferski 1 hour ago|||
I’d be glad to see evidence that people voted for interventions in the Middle East, if you have any.

My impression is that a key part of Trump’s campaign was ending excessive foreign wars. There are lots of clips going around with him saying this.

applfanboysbgon 57 minutes ago|||
Trump's approval rating among his base is still overwhelmingly high. They know what they were voting for, and they still support him. They know that Trump lies like he breathes, and they are perfectly fine with that. Trump supporters themselves are largely liars. They do not openly state the positions they actually hold. That Trump says X and does Y is fine because his supporters say X and believe Y. Words are a game to them, a means to accomplish a goal rather than something to communicate honestly with.

The most important thing to understand about Trump and conservatism in general, by far, is that there is one central principle that underpines the entire ideology: hierarchy. Going back to the time of kings and nobility and clergy, through to the present day.

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

One set of laws for the people higher in the hierarchy, and one set of laws for the people lower in the hierarchy. Things that are okay for them to do are not okay for you to do. Wars started by Democrats are bad. Wars started by Republicans are good. They know this is not convincing rhetoric to anyone who is not part of the in-group, so they lie about their reasons and play games with words. This, however, is what they truly believe.

It is why every action they take appears hypocritical to their opponents, but in actuality, it is perfectly consistent with their values - it is good when they do it, because everything is good when they do it, and it is bad when somebody else does it, because everything is bad when somebody else does it. It is why "the only moral abortion is my abortion". It is why the exact same policies executed by different presidents will have the same approval rating by democrats, but a completely inverse approval rating by republicans (eg 40% of Democrats approve of either Obama or Trump striking Syria, while 20% of Republicans approve if Obama does it and 80% approve if Trump does it). It is the single consistent trend through all of their policies. They know exactly what they were voting for, and that is for the man who represents their hierarchy. The games he plays with words are part of the platform.

Edit: I have rewrote the message quite a bit, apologies if anything doesn't make sense.

keiferski 49 minutes ago|||
This is too simplified of an answer.

It may be the case that his base is still just following him and supportive of whatever he does.

But the number of people who voted for him vastly exceeds his “base”, and the entire MAGA movement is basically predicated on a form of isolationism, or at least not pro-intervention. Part of the reason it became popular was as a reaction against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So I don’t think it’s as simple and one dimensional as you paint here. Which is exactly why I think it’s a systemic problem: many people probably voted for him because of the campaign promises of being against foreign wars.

Al-Khwarizmi 11 minutes ago|||
But will they still support him if gas prices and general inflation spike hard, as is nearly a given if Trump doesn't back out from the war?

My impression is that most of his voters are selfish and couldn't care less for other people's woes (migrants, sexual abuse victims, Iranians or whatever), but will care if his antics hit their own pockets. I'm not American so I may well be wrong, though.

applfanboysbgon 56 seconds ago||
Yes, they will still support him. Republicans dying of COVID would still deny its existence on their deathbed. Farmers bankrupted and people who lost jobs because of Trump's policies support him. The people whose children were massacred at Uvalde while police stood by and watched re-elected the same conservative police commissioner.

Their support is not the result of a rational calculation of self-interest, and never was. If it was, a base of rural and poor people would never be supporting a coastal city New York elite born with a silver spoon in his mouth as "one of them". But they do, because he is "one of them" in the way that matters to them. They are fighting for something larger than themselves, and are completely committed to a culture war for social hierarchy.

kakacik 59 minutes ago|||
Well yeah but he is a pathological liar, fraudster and a criminal. This was well known during 2nd election campaign.

Expecting to hold any promises just because they were said and got him where he wanted is a bit naive, don't you think? Or does the idea of 'but now he will act completely differently to his entire prior life!' makes any sense to you?

entropyneur 58 minutes ago|||
It may indeed be the case that the candidate promised one thing and the voters acting irrationally (or correctly assuming he's a liar) voted with an expectation of him doing the exact opposite. The GP, however didn't say anything about voting. He was talking specifically about the mismatch between campaign promises and actions taken once in office.
SadErn 1 hour ago||
[dead]
Incipient 1 hour ago||
Personally I do have serious concerns about the direction 'the west' is going with the current issues of immigration, violence, and general migration to a lower trust environment...however trying to burn a capital to the ground definitely seems like the wrong approach making it any better.
yetihehe 1 hour ago||
I think in reality they don't want to make it better...
spiderfarmer 1 hour ago|||
Did you, after all you've seen, think the people currently in power in the USA are capable of making reasonable decisions?

Vote these people out please.

camillomiller 1 hour ago||
I fera that with this people in power we are past that already. We'll see soon, I suppose. Trump and his goons will not leave power through elections.
golemiprague 1 hour ago||
[dead]
throwaway132448 56 minutes ago||
Why are threads on this topic (and its adjacents) always full of Americans blaming Israel for their own country’s actions? Is it a coping mechanism to not accept any moral accountability? Israel is minuscule in every way compared to the US.
lwansbrough 1 hour ago||
I was wondering today how many people will develop cancer in a few years because of this.

Why must Israel be so duplicitous? It is exhausting.

kuerbel 1 hour ago||
It all started with the war in Gaza. We, the West collectively, with the exception of only a few European states like Spain and Ireland, allowed them to perpetrate war crimes, which were rarely met with criticism, let alone consequences.
lukan 1 hour ago|||
To me it started with the war in Iraq. Made up story as excuse, expensive disaster as a result.

(Afghanistan was already not great, the Taliban were open to extradict Bin Laden, they just demanded proof first, but it was still sort of a international coordinated action.)

That broke the dam. Why should russia care about international law, if the US does not? When you are superpower number one, you lead by example. For better or worse.

whycombigator 20 minutes ago|||
The "war" in Gaza?

Seemed mostly like a nation state bombing refugees to me...

Al-Khwarizmi 1 hour ago|||
It's not even duplicitous because that implies some sort of benevolent facade. It's outright evil.
lwansbrough 1 hour ago||
Israel does employ a facade of a liberal democracy that aligns itself to some extent with Western culture. Though this is very much in decline and I think, generally, sentiment on Israel has shifted quite dramatically in the West in recent years.
CommanderData 1 hour ago||
It cares not that the world suffers for it's selfish aims.
JV00 1 hour ago||
"Help is coming" they said. This certainly excludes that the Iranian protesters will ever side with the west again. Terrible strategic move.
spiderfarmer 1 hour ago||
Surely:

This will make the US safer.

This will make stuff cheaper.

This is a well thought out war.

It will improve the US economoy.

It will not destabilise the region.

This will make life better for Americans.

It will in no way make people hate the USA.

codemog 1 hour ago|
Great use of tax dollars while the American people face all time cost of living highs among a plethora of many other problems. It’s sickening.
spiderfarmer 1 hour ago||
Problem is, it's not being paid with tax dollars. The USA spent 10 trillion on wars over the last decades and none of it was paid with tax dollars.

It is all borrowed or printed. And the wars wouldn't have happened without them having those options, because Americans don't even want this.

harperlee 1 hour ago||
And that borrow/print in the end is either future tax dollars/inflation/US pays, stealing from other nations, or default on debt.
manyaoman 1 hour ago||
https://archive.is/VUzow
jonatron 1 hour ago||
Crude oil is over $100/barrel now, affecting almost everyone everywhere.
piva00 1 hour ago|
There's no off ramp whatsoever for both Iran, and Israel and the USA. This will trigger a global recession, everything is about to get much more expensive.

Absolute disaster, all to fill up the coffers of American oil companies...

Devasta 1 hour ago||
Regardless of what you feel about the government of Iran, it is not inaccurate to say that country is in a fight for survival against a cabal of child molestors working to bring about the apocalypse.

Anything they do in this conflict is justified, anything less than their total victory is a disaster for the world.

pseingatl 1 hour ago|
If you want to get the Iranian side of the story, look at presstv.ir.
nubg 1 hour ago||
Thanks, but it seems down?
defrost 1 hour ago|||
Reachable and up WRT W.Australia - perhaps DNS / otherwise blocked in your location.
2Gkashmiri 1 hour ago||||
rumble.com/presstv
kome 1 hour ago|||
probably your provider is censoring it. it's working here.
tgma 1 hour ago||
> Iranian side of the story

Islamic regime's side. Rather key distinction v. Iranian people.

pzo 1 hour ago|||
what stops us to use the same naming and call it USA Regime, Israeli Regime at this point?
tgma 59 minutes ago||
Nothing stops you, but I suppose murdering tens of thousands of your own people is a fairly clear delineation that you are not a singular entity?
whycombigator 17 minutes ago|||
Give it time...
pzo 48 minutes ago|||
if for you to be qualified as regime is to murder tens of thousands of your own people then I think you put too high bar on it. I guess killing only few thousands or even few hundreds in your definition would rule out to someone being called totalitarian/autocratic regimes? How about not murdering own people but thousands other people? How is it called? Nazi germany AFAIK mostly murdered millions of other people.

People use this name (Regime) wrong - worth to at least read definion on wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regime

tgma 43 minutes ago||
Look, I don't understand what you are debating here. I already agreed you can call USA regime just that should you choose to. I don't mind. You might get a scholarship to Columbia while at it.

My post was simply to clarify to the reader that PressTV is owned by the regime in Iran.

watwut 1 hour ago||||
I am afraid that this will bring them closer together. That the people who would welcome outside world to do a magical thing that reforms Iran wont like the practical thing the world actually did.

By afraid I am not saying it will happen, it is not a prediction. I think that it is a risk.

tgma 1 hour ago||
After they killed 40k+ in Jan? Perhaps.
orwin 28 minutes ago|||
Every weeks that number increases.

Two weeks ago it was 30k, a week ago it was 35k, now it's 40k+, but OSINT sources keep the number around 15k (including 1.3 k from the Iranian government own forces) and don't move it up. I'm pretty sure the real number is higher than the one OSINT resources can give, considering the uprising and repression also happened in small, less connected cities, but the constant increase is honestly very off-putting, and the more it happens, the more it feels like manufacturing consent.

tgma 23 minutes ago||
There have been numbers as high as 90k reported initially, so I wouldn't say it is "moving up" across time but across sources. There is no clear data, but at this point 30-32k appears to be the lower bound estimate over which there's a consensus. Likely to be higher.
kakacik 49 minutes ago|||
Current campaigns will kill way more iranians. Plus regime didn't bomb 200 girls to pieces in their school, did it.

Thats extremely hard sell, with cherry on top when you have a literal video of tomahawks hitting that area during that time and trump claiming it was iranians who bombed it... just spits and insults in the face

tgma 49 minutes ago||
> Current campaigns will kill way more iranians.

Your math is not mathing. 30-40k in 2 days unarmed civilians vs I dunno 6k almost all military in a week? If you look at the stats of executions etc you'll see civilian casualties in Iran go DOWN while being bombed.

> regime didn't bomb 200 girls to pieces in their school, did it.

Yes, actually they did. It was their own missile. Just like the Ukrainian plane they shot down a few years back.

kakacik 37 minutes ago||
I said will, please read comments more thoroughly before replying. Everybody agrees this war will drag for some time.

Care to backup those wild claims with any facts? The video of tomahawk I talk about is circulating all over internet, so its pretty uphill battle to discredit it when clearly tomahawks are landing

tgma 27 minutes ago||
Trump himself confirmed this on Air Force One earlier today. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/03/07/trump-...

Nothing about this is such a wild claim if you are familiar with their past behavior.

There were Persian language sources inside Iran that immediately after the incident attributed it to IRGC missile misfire, before some outlets started using that as propaganda material (which by the way played out perfectly.)

pzo 4 minutes ago||
It's ridiculous to say "Trump himself confirmed this" as reliable source of truth.
MrBuddyCasino 1 hour ago|||
What do you think the New York Times or CNN is (or rather, were).
tgma 1 hour ago||
Varies. Not all of them are equal. At least not in the same way. Distinctions are important. NYT, for example, employs Farnaz Fassihi who's a known regime shill. CNN recently sent a reporter live to the region who has to operate under the regime's restrictions to be let in and cannot accurately report everything even if they wanted to. Same with Reuters who has an office inside. They basically had a choice to bite the bullet and agree to the terms and be one of the few foreign reporters with access, or not have access at all and freely report.

That said, PressTV is different from the above a it's an officially a state-operated entity, so it is not a question of mere bias.

More comments...