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Posted by robin_reala 10 hours ago

Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)(www.pv-magazine.com)
707 points | 424 commentspage 2
deanc 6 hours ago|
There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding of the global energy supply presented around me nowadays. I would urge anyone to stop what they're doing and read "Clearing the Air" [1]. It's completely reshaped my understanding of this problem, and I am far more optimistic after reading it.

It addresses key questions such as "What about China?" and "Can we stop it?"

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222768021-clearing-the-a...

eitau_1 8 hours ago||
Damn, and my country consumes 11 million out of 13 million tonnes of coal used for heating houses in the entire EU.
oezi 8 hours ago|
Tell me where you are from without telling me where you are from...

Poland I guess?

landl0rd 6 hours ago||
Ireland is a net energy importer who imports electricity from Great Britain. She, in turn, often imports from nations including France, Holland, and Denmark, who use coal power.

As such, it's not really the whole story to call Ireland, "coal-free". It's the same as America outsourcing heavy manufacturing or chemicals to China and claiming environmental victory. It's true in a narrow construction of the concept; it does reduce the burden on one's own country. It is false in the sense of one's contribution to the global commons and externalizes those externalities previously more internalized. It is, in other words, a shell game. Ireland's dependence on imported energy continues to rise and the number continues to tick up on the books of other nations and down on hers, with her people paying the "guilt premium" associated with this accounting trick. They're not exactly dirty grids, but the fact remains, Ireland still relies to some extent on coal.

Also note that, though she is building OCGTs and fast CCGTs elsewhere, she converted Moneypoint not to gas but to heavy fuel oil. HFO is quite dirty stuff, only a dozen or so per cent cleaner than the coal it replaces per Ireland's own EIS. This is likely influenced by the fact that the plant was specced to burn some of the cleaner thermal coal on the market, largely from Glencore's Cerrejon mine, with pretty low sulfur and ash relative to others. So, the delta from relatively clean coal (excuse the expression) to some of the dirtiest oil; large boilers like that are likely burning No. 5 or 6, aka bunker B or C in marine. Not sure if you've ever seen (or smelled) this stuff but it's the next thing from tar.

Ireland could instead have chosen to pull in gas from the North Sea and reduced the emissions of Moneypoint by not twelve but fifty to sixty per cent with modern CCGTs. Even older, more readily-available OCGTs would give thirty to forty per cent. This is ~250mmcf, i.e. probably a 24" spur line. Though this likely necessitates a few hundred km of loop for the ring main to the west, it's less than a year's work with a competent American crew.

Instead, she chose a paltry twelve per cent a few years earlier; when the other gas peaker capacity is installed, cooling infra and existing thermal plant talent base while paying to reconstitute all those on the other side of the island.

None of this is to say Ireland's work on decarbonizing her grid isn't real, but "coal-free" rather tends to obscure the present state of things; it is generally understood to make a strong, binary truth claim that isn't subject to "mostly" and implies one is no longer dependent on coal. It therefore demands consideration of electricity's fungibility in a grid.

s_dev 5 hours ago||
Ireland is building the Celtic Interconnector with France next, will import a lot of her electricity from there which predominately uses nuclear power to generate her electricity. I fear you're making perfect the enemy of better and genuine progress.

https://www.eirgrid.ie/celticinterconnector

Ireland has lots of problems including energy generation but you're not being fair in citing significant progress having been made here.

landl0rd 5 hours ago||
I'm not the enemy of this progress at all and think it's a good thing. Same goes for the Celtic Interconnecter, though. My point is basically a) "coal-free" is misleading and this progress can be framed in other ways, and b) Ireland would have been better-served in terms of cost and environment to rely on even OCGTs than HFO.
empath75 6 hours ago|||
Ireland imports less than 10% of it's electricity from the UK. The UK _already_ decommissioned it's coal-based eletricity production. The UK imports roughly 14% of it's electricity, and most of those imports are from nuclear and hydro-electric power.

Your entire comment is incredibly misleading.

landl0rd 6 hours ago||
No, it isn't. Power in a grid is fungible so grids operate based off consumption-based accounting. Britain continues to import at times from countries still burning coal. As such, Ireland is not free of coal dependence. It's really that simple. It is accurate for Ireland to say she no longer directly burns coal, no longer operates coal power, but the common understanding of "coal-free" is, "we are no longer directly dependent on coal for our lights to turn on." That simply isn't the case.

The way to think about this is, "If the grid had zero reserves and coal cut off, who could POSSIBLY go down?" You may figure this is constructed, but in a few days' dunkelflaute, Ireland needs her interconnects. Wind is then possibly low across much of Europe, meaning Holland and Germany ramp dispatchable capacity, including German lignite.

patrickmcnamara 5 hours ago||
I saw nobody making those arguments. Most people were thinking that Ireland doesn't burn coal anymore. People who think or care about this stuff know that interconnects exist.
encom 6 hours ago||
>[...]Denmark, who use coal power

Denmark has one coal fired power plant left, set to close in 2028.

https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/i-dag-lukker-og-slukker-et...

s_dev 7 hours ago||
https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/roi/

Here is the dashboard for electricity in Ireland.

Ireland is not industrialised in a similar way to other EU countries like Germany or Italy which has lots of heavy manufacturing. Irish industry is mostly composed of US pharmaceuticals and data centres occupying much of the energy demand. There is a bauxite facility in limerick which does come to mind but that sort of thing isn't common in Ireland.

speedylight 5 hours ago||
They might want to reopen it, oil prices spiked to $120 a few hours ago.
arkensaw 4 hours ago|
ironically it's been converted to run on Oil now, as a backup
Zigurd 6 hours ago||
Dirty power generation, and dirty toxic hazardous industry in general, discriminate against the poor and minorities. That carries an enormous social cost that goes uncounted in discussions like the ones on this thread.

Nuclear discriminates against capitalism. The cost makes the choice of nuclear irrational. The inability to insure nuclear in the private market makes it a travesty of free markets.

snake42 3 hours ago|
The top comment currently on this post is talking about the cost impacts being transferred to the poor and middle class with lots of discussion. I think people are well aware of and discuss the social impacts.
Zigurd 3 hours ago||
They discuss "social impacts" from the point of view that dirtier power is cheaper, supposedly, hypothetically, net of externalities, while ignoring the cost dirty power inflicts on the people living near the dirty power generation.
interludead 3 hours ago||
A lot of these plants were built in the 70s-90s and were expected to run 40–50 years. Instead many are shutting early because renewables plus carbon pricing have simply made them uneconomical
amai 1 hour ago|
It is 2026 now. So thats 56 - 36 years from 1970-90. So it is not really a lot earlier than expected.
fixxation92 7 hours ago||
Definitely a step in the right direction, but believe it or not-- I overheard a customer in Aldi asking for coal only last week! I couldn't believe it, the staff member didn't know where to send them
moominpapa 5 hours ago||
Meanwhile China has 1200 of them - well done Ireland I'm sure they will follow your lead once they get around to it.
hrmtst93837 4 hours ago|
Germany, meanwhile, having phased out nuclear power, now has to rely heavily on coal.
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