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Posted by todsacerdoti 18 hours ago

RISC-V Is Sloooow(marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl)
270 points | 283 commentspage 3
yogthos 16 hours ago|
there are projects for making high performance RISC-V chips like this one https://github.com/OpenXiangShan/XiangShan
classichasclass 16 hours ago|
OK, I'll bite. If this is a truly competitive core - I don't claim enough personal expertise to judge - does anyone fab and sell it? There should be a business case if it is.
luyu_wu 15 hours ago||
If I remember correctly,it was taped out by some company as some embedded core in a GPU?

I guess that may be the true use case for 'Open-Source' cores.

That being said, the advertised SPEC2007 scores are close to a M1 in IPC.

sltkr 17 hours ago||
Are you sure you are comparing apples with apples here?

The fact that i686 is 14% faster than x86_64 is a little suspicious, because usually the same software runs _faster_ on x86_64 (despite the increased memory use) thanks to a larger register set, an optimized ABI, and more vector instructions.

Of course, if you are compiling an i686 binary on i686, and an x86_64 binary on x86_64, then the compilers aren't really doing the same work, since their output is different. I'm not a compiler expert, but I could imagine that compiling x86_64 binaries is intrinsically slower than for i686 for a variety of reasons. For example, x86_64 is mostly a superset of i686, so a compiler has way more instructions to consider, including potential optimizations using e.g. SIMD instructions that don't exist on i686 at all. Or a compiler might assume a larger instruction cache size, by default, and do more unrolling or inlining when compiling for x86_64. And so on.

In that case, compiling on x86_64 is slower not because the hardware is bad but because the compiler does more work. Perhaps something similar is happening on RISC-V.

jmalicki 15 hours ago||
It isn't crazy uncommon to see i686 be faster - usually it means you're memory bandwidth bound.

But yeah, it may mean the benchmark is not representative.

fweimer 16 hours ago|||
The x86-64 build runs about 50% more linker tests than the i686 build.
andrepd 17 hours ago||
There's zero mention of hardware specs or cost beyond architecture and core counts... What is the purpose of this post?

Anyway, it's hardly surprising that a young ISA with not a 1/1000th of the investment of x86 or ARM has slower chips than them x)

kashyapc 14 hours ago|
On benchmarks, for more precision details, I recommend the RISC-V Vector (RVV) benchmarks[1], maintained by Olaf Bernsten. He only covers the Vector stuff, but with great depth.

[1] https://camel-cdr.github.io/rvv-bench-results/

Joel_Mckay 17 hours ago||
Any new hardware lags in compiler optimizations.

i. llvm presentation can thrash caches if setup wrong (given the plethora of RISC-V fragmented versions, most compilers won't cover every vanity silicon.)

ii. gcc is also "slow" in general, but is predictable/reliable

iii. emulation is always slower than kvm in qemu

It may seem silly, but I'd try a gcc build with -O0 flag, and a toy unit test with -S to see if the ASM is actually foobar. One may have to force the -mtune=boom flag to narrow your search. Best regards =3

brcmthrowaway 17 hours ago||
Why is it slow? I thought we have Rivos chips
kashyapc 2 hours ago||
They haven't produced any chips.
rwmj 16 hours ago||
Rivos was acquired by Meta last year.
IshKebab 18 hours ago||
Yeah it's a few years behind ARM, but not that many. Imagine trying to compile this on ARM 10 years ago. It would be similarly painful.
kllrnohj 17 hours ago||
> Imagine trying to compile this on ARM 10 years ago

Cortex A57 is 14 years old and is significantly faster than the 9 year old Cortex A55 these RISC-V cores are being compared against.

So yes it's many years behind. Many, many years.

LeFantome 15 hours ago||
SpacemiT K3 is on par with Rockchip RK3588. So, about 4 years behind ARM.

Tenstorrent Atlantis (first Ascalon silicon) should ship in Q2/Q3 and be twice as fast. About as fast as Ryzen5. So, about 5 years behind AMD.

But even the K3 has faster AI than Apple Silicon or Qualcomm X Elite.

Current trend-lines suggest ARM64 and RISC-V performance parity before 2030.

ben-schaaf 4 hours ago|||
Not sure why you're taking the rk3588 as a milestone for ARM, when it's a low end chip using core designs that were old when it released. Cortex-A76 is from 2018, so if that's the yardstick then the K3 is 8 years behind. Even then at the time the A76 was released Apple was significantly ahead with their own ARM CPUs.
HerbManic 13 hours ago||||
I love the optimisim, but I do thimk your time line is little quick. It will be more like 10 years than 4.
kllrnohj 15 hours ago|||
> SpacemiT K3 is on par with Rockchip RK3588. So, about 4 years behind ARM.

That'd be ~7 years behind, not 4. Cortex A76 came out in late 2018. Also what benchmarks are you looking at?

> Tenstorrent Atlantis (first Ascalon silicon) should ship in Q2/Q3 and be twice as fast. About as fast as Ryzen5. So, about 5 years behind AMD.

Which Ryzen 5? The first Ryzen 5 came out in 2017, which was a lot more than 5 years ago.

> But even the K3 has faster AI than Apple Silicon or Qualcomm X Elite.

Which isn't RISC-V. Might as well brag about a RISC-V CPU with an RTX 5090 being faster at CUDA than a Nintendo Switch. That's a coprocessor that has nothing to do with the ISA or CPU core.

> Current trend-lines suggest ARM64 and RISC-V performance parity before 2030.

L. O. fucking. L. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

hackerInnen 17 hours ago||
This. While I doubt that there will be a good (whatever that means) desktop risc-v CPU anytime soon, I do think that it will eventually catch up in embedded systems and special applications. Maybe even high core count servers.

It just takes time, people who believe in it and tons of money. Will see where the journey goes, but I am a big risc-v believer

theodric 17 hours ago||
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throwaway27448 17 hours ago||
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primis 17 hours ago||
Hey! I get this is a throwaway account so you might not answer, but I really, really don't like opening an article and having the first thing I see in a thread be someone calling the author a slur. There are ways of expressing insult without bringing intellectual disabilities into the mix.
dmit 17 hours ago|||
For future readers: throwaway27448's comment used to say something completely different, featuring the r-slur, and then immediately edited.
throwaway27448 10 hours ago||
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notenlish 5 hours ago||
Can you explain why you think the author is stupid.
throwaway27448 10 hours ago|||
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ephou7 17 hours ago||
Ulrich Drepper, Lennart Poettering, this clown. Red Hat seems to have a skill of hiring savants with high technical and low social aptitude.
devl547 7 hours ago|
Is it RISC-V or bloated software full of layered abstractions?