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Posted by cokernel_hacker 14 hours ago

U+237C ⍼ Is Azimuth(ionathan.ch)
325 points | 43 commentspage 2
foxglacier 12 hours ago|
I was wondering how much information was being lost whenever a font designer re-created that without knowing what it's supposed to be. It turns out they all put the arrow through the corner of the right angle which adds confusion by making it look like 3D cartesian axes. One of them made the zig-zag a curve which would be completely wrong by the sextant reason. But I guess this is how symbols and language drift over time.
RobotToaster 12 hours ago|
Let's hope fonts will start correcting it to the original form
russellbeattie 10 hours ago||
The photos of the symbol catalogs are incredidble. You really have to admire the precision printing they did in the early 1900s. All those glyphs were created by hand. I'm not exactly sure what sort of lithography process was used (I can't imagine they weren't casting them in lead), but there was definitely nothing digital about it. The results are amazing.
dhosek 7 hours ago|
Those would be characters set with lead type. Most twentieth century designs would be created using a pantograph to engrave matrices for casting type although traditionally, a type designer would engrave punches which would be essentially the characters engraved at printing size, then struck into a blank matrix for casting the type.
cubefox 5 hours ago||
Now can we find an example where this symbol was actually used in practice?
aaron695 3 hours ago||
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unit149 8 hours ago||
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cookiengineer 13 hours ago|
I didn't know that this is a mystery?

A lot of old German sailor maps (e.g. from the Hamburg or Bremen maritime museum exhibitions) contain Azimutal angle descriptions. The globe on an azimutal map is projected from the North Star in the center.

This way you could more easily calculate the angles you would need to use the Sextant (which was focused on the brightest star, the North star). They also used circles (the tool) to calculate relative speeds, current drift etc with it.

I thought this was kind of common knowledge, as a lot of museums have that sorta thing for children in their exhibitions to try out.

SAI_Peregrinus 13 hours ago||
The typographic symbol was the element in question, not what "Azimuth" is.
Dawda 9 hours ago|||
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poizan42 10 hours ago|||
Okay, but what does any of that have to do with knowing that the glyph at U+237C originated as a symbol for azimuth?
cookiengineer 8 hours ago||
Because that symbol was used as a notation symbol in those star charts and azimutal maps?

The article quotes the Didot system, specifically, which focused on printing travel maps and is known not only in the French speaking world for its timely accuracy [1] as it was also using that very same map system.

Maybe read the article next time?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didot_family

[2] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_de...

shezi 2 hours ago||
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your comment at all. The linked article does not refer to Didot, nor does the Wikipedia page for the glyph in question.

Neither the wikipedia page for the Didot family, nor for Histoire générale des voyages shows the Angzarr symbol, I've carefully checked on all the scans on these pages. In fact, any occurrence of the symbol would pre-date the current earliest known example (1963) by 200 years, and that would be a great find. If you have an actual reference, please let us know!

cookiengineer 1 hour ago||
Check the photos in the article, specifically this one [1]

"Haussystem Didot", the title of the catalog, refers to a letter setting by the printing agency Didot, which is the one I linked on wikipedia.

The Gallica scans are linked in the wikipedia article. Each of those chapters has hundreds of pages.

I highly doubt that you eye scanned thousands of pages in French handwritten and mixed typesetted ... within less than a day. You definitely must be lying, they take months to read.

[1] https://ionathan.ch/assets/images/angzarr/Berthold%201900.jp...

shezi 1 hour ago|||
Neither did I read all these pages nor did I pretend to.

> Neither the wikipedia page for the Didot family, nor for Histoire générale des voyages shows the Angzarr symbol, I've carefully checked on all the scans on these pages.

You have linked these two Wikipedia pages[1][2], implying that they confirm your extraordinary claims of how obvious and well-known this symbol is. I could in fact check within a single day that the symbol does not appear on any of the 15 images linked in these pages.

So unless you can produce evidence for your claim that "that symbol was used as a notation symbol in those star charts and azimutal maps?", it is quite disingenuous to expect anyone to take it seriously. Expecting someone else to read "thousands of pages" to confirm or deny YOUR claim makes it even less worthy of consideration.

If you do have actual, material evidence for your claims, everyone in this thread would very much like to see it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didot_family [2] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_de...

krick 1 hour ago|||
That's great and all, but the point is that there still isn't a single known (to the community of people trying to find the origins of that symbol, so, safe to say, the vast majority of people in general) appearance of the character in the actual text (i.e. used for its purpose), so if you have an example of a map/book/anything where this character was used, providing the link/scan/photo would be very appreciated.
cookiengineer 1 hour ago||
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