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Posted by etothet 9 hours ago

The MacBook Neo(daringfireball.net)
https://www.pcmag.com/news/asus-co-ceo-macbook-neo-is-a-shoc...
184 points | 363 commentspage 2
ExoticPearTree 13 hours ago|
Maybe other manufacturers will actually stop making crappy hardware that feels like its taped together?
MengerSponge 3 hours ago||
Hardware is hard, and Apple's scale lets them make things that are nice while still maintaining their margins.

A decade ago, but still relevant: https://beneinstein.com/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like-ap...

VerifiedReports 13 hours ago||
More importantly, they need to find an alternative to Windows. A $10,000 computer wouldn't fix that dogshit.
ExoticPearTree 12 hours ago||
There's really nothing in between. If ChromeOS would have been an alternative, maybe more Chromebooks would have been sold.

It comes down to Microsoft not doubling down on "let's make Windows as annoying as possible" (with ads, with telemetry that can't be turned off).

fragmede 11 hours ago||
Depends what you want to do. ChromeOS is pretty great at certain things.
Reason077 2 hours ago||
> “Once or twice a day I need to manually bump the display brightness up or down.”

This is a daily, albeit minor, annoyance on my MacBook Air too.

cromka 12 hours ago||
Just imagine what Apple would do to the market if they also offered a full Linux support, but not Windows... They'd probably own some 70% of Linux market outright and also double its overall size overnight.
eloisant 3 hours ago||
They already cannibalized a lot of Linux users, developers mainly when they released MacOS X around year 2000.

Suddenly you could have a Unix, with pretty much the same CLI as Linux but without all the supported hardware/driver issues. Laptop sleep in particular was pretty finicky.

If MacOS didn't pick a Unix/BSD base, I'm pretty sure all the tech companies running Mac would be on Linux.

throw0101d 3 hours ago|||
> They already cannibalized a lot of Linux users, developers mainly when they released MacOS X around year 2000.

FoxTrot comic from 2002:

* https://archive.is/https://www.gocomics.com/foxtrot/2002/02/...

Apocryphon 1 hour ago||||
BeOS, anyone?
znpy 1 hour ago||
Clearly not
nottorp 2 hours ago|||
They seem to be trying hard to annoy developers lately though.

<cough> xattr...

layer8 3 hours ago|||
Apple wants to make money with services, however, and buying more devices in their ecosystem. Full Linux support would counteract the lock-in.
cromka 32 minutes ago||
I thought about it , but cloud is getting way more expensive since they don't own the infrastructure, while they themselves have long term components contracts that actually help to increase their margin on their hardware. So they're most likely gonna make more money off of hardware going forward. And nothing stops them from offering integration with other devices, effectively all they lose is potential income from AppStore on macOS, which doesn't sell much anyway. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me!
beAbU 11 hours ago|||
If apple came out with their own linux distro, with open drivers and a mainline kernel... A girl can dream!
starkparker 3 hours ago|||
The memory that XNU and Darwin are technically open-source projects is a curse that brings one only suffering.
p_ing 1 hour ago||
I would call them open access. Apple doesn't accept contributions.
bigfishrunning 29 minutes ago||
Does not accepting contributions make you not open source? I would assume if the license allows you to fork it, that makes it open source (as opposed to "shared source" licenses that basically say "look don't touch")
kylec 3 hours ago||||
I feel like Apple wouldn't want to make full Linux work on their hardware, but they could enable their Darwin kernel to emulate Linux syscalls and provide a way to boot into a mode that basically loads the kernel and whatever Linux shell you want
pjmlp 11 hours ago|||
This path is already taken and it didn't sell Apple hardware in masses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux

beAbU 10 hours ago||
MkLinux was first released in 1996, and discontinued in 2002.

I would argue that things have changed significantly since then.

yfw 10 hours ago||
Yeah liquid glass suckss
pjmlp 11 hours ago||
Don't need to imagine, it did not take off, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux

> Reception was mixed, focusing on the difficult installation process and the significant performance costs of the Mach kernel. Reviewers noted its potential as a "Unix killer", but that it required users to abandon the user-friendly Macintosh experience for a pure Linux environment.

kingstnap 11 hours ago|||
1996 is not now. This comparision makes little to no sense.

I'm sure if Apple provided support for installing your own OS on their M series laptops it would be incredibly popular. And I don't need to guess at this using weird 1996 research on microkernels because Asahi Linux exists and clearly there is interest in it.

pjmlp 10 hours ago||
Indeed, Apple from 1996 would not released Tahoe, most likely.

We don't need research because QNX, L4 and many others on embedded space do exist as well.

mhurron 2 hours ago|||
Do you forget what Apple in '96 was? Or are you saying that Tahoe is too polished for the Apple of '96?

Apple was not a bastion of quality in the 90's. They couldn't modernize the Mac OS, and that continued with little more than window dressing over what was released in the 80's. The Mac line up was a horrible mess of barely different models that needed a Ph.D to figure out what was different. The company was bleeding money and seriously close to bankruptcy.

The Apple of the mid 90's wishes it could release something like Tahoe.

pjmlp 1 hour ago||
Yes the 1996 Apple was on the edge of bankruptcy, yet Mac OS 8 was definitely much more polished than Tahoe.
ribosometronome 2 hours ago||||
Apple circa 1996 would be charging for its updates and licensing out the software to Power Computing and UMAX. They were making a lot of "interesting" decisions.
pjmlp 1 hour ago||
They still are doing lots of interesting decisions, the difference is that now the piggy bank is full to care of them going badly.
officeplant 1 hour ago|||
Rip Blackberry Phone + QNX, you were so promising for such a short time.
fsflover 11 hours ago|||
> difficult installation process and the significant performance costs

So it was a failure in implementation.

pjmlp 10 hours ago||
And the Apple that delivered Tahoe will do better?
cromka 9 hours ago||
All they would need is to provide complete DTBs and some drivers, no need to write a new OS from scratch.
BugsJustFindMe 1 hour ago||
> The biggest shortcoming of the decade-ago MacBook “One”, aside from the baffling decision to include just one USB-C port that was also its only means of charging, was the shitty performance of Intel’s Core M chips.

MMMMMMM.....I don't know. I think the biggest shortcomings of that laptop were super common keyboard (dustgate), SSD, USB-C port, display, battery, and CPU (popcorning) failure.

smackeyacky 14 hours ago||
My daughter just ordered one of these. She’s a student (not stem) and her ancient 8Gb MacBook Air with an intel processor was still serving well but the battery has become unuseable and her keyboard is becoming flaky.

The Neo is such a perfect replacement and easier than fixing the Air.

ThePowerOfFuet 12 hours ago||
The keyboard issue was probably caused by the battery, which can be replaced, and the keyboard would have likely returned to normal after the battery replacement.

In fact, depending on the model, the battery replacement may well have also entailed replacing the whole top cover (including the keyboard).

smackeyacky 10 hours ago||
Interesting I will look at replacing the battery if that’s a possibility. Thanks!
greatgib 11 hours ago||
[flagged]
wappieslurkz 8 hours ago||
I don't think you actually tried it.
needSomeCoffee 1 hour ago||
I do not really understand why the Walmart $599 M1 MBA comparison is so lost in the MSM. The Neo is the same price (without edu discount). The Neo CPU benchmarks slightly better until the 4W performance limit factors in more real-world cases (then the M1 wins handily). So much is given up with the Neo: Worse screen, Worse keyboard, No TouchId, Worse Trackpad, etc. Yet Apple is praised for the Neo. No longer matters of course as it appears that the Walmart M1 is history, and we now have the Neo -- worse in almost every way vs. M1 MBA. The only real beneficiary is undoubtedly Apple's margin. I guess the MSM and Apple fanbois hatred of Walmart and the "losers who shop there" influences this, but even so. Neo only benefits Apple vs. Walmarts M1 MBA deal.

Edit / Link: https://www.macworld.com/article/2986234/walmart-m1-macbook-...

ksec 1 hour ago||
>(then the M1 wins handily).

How do you came to this conclusion when both are passingly cooled and A19 Pro is faster. Not to mention AV1 and other newer codec hardware accelerator and NPU / GPU improvements.

Also remember M1 MBA is may be Walmart and US only. Around the world most dont even get a chance to buy M1 at $599. The display dont have P3 but is actually brighter than M1 400 nits. Not sure how Keyboard is worse. Neo also have 1080P webcam rather than 720P.

And if Walmart is selling M1 at $599, I am sure they will also sell Neo at lower than RSP may be even same as educational discount $499. And this point surely Neo would win?

What a lot of people dont talk about, and may be wait until iFixit to confirm. Neo is basically the iPhone 17 of MacBook. It is perhaps the easiest to repair and cheapest MacBook for Apple to services.

kvuj 1 hour ago|||
For me the longer software support would play a role in my decisions. The M1 MBA will probably lose support in 4-5 years whereas the Neo has a longer road ahead.

Combine that with the enormously improved single core performance (which matters more in the real world than sustained load for an entry level notebook), fun colors and 499 price tag for students and I can see the interest.

The screen is good compared to the MBA (only loses P3 colors) but the bummer seems to be ports and the "normal" trackpad.

nouveaux 1 hour ago|||
Why compare the M1 MBA discounted at Walmart but not give the same edu discount to the Neo? The target audience for Neo is likely people who would be able to use the edu discount.

I know many people who would not care about the differences you have outlined and gladly pay $499 for the Neo.

haunter 1 hour ago|||
Even cheaper if you buy from Walmart's refurb outlet, they are $380.
testing22321 1 hour ago||
The Walmart M1 only exists in one country.
nicoburns 3 hours ago||
> The Neo charges faster if you plug it into a more powerful power adapter, in either USB-C port.

The fact that the "usb 2" port works for (fast) charging is a big win. That means you can charge and use the fast usb port at the same time.

blacksmith_tb 3 hours ago||
I think that makes it a non-standard implementation though (I agree it's certainly more practical for the user), sounds like it's usb-c pd but with nerfed data, an odd choice that feels like it would actually have cost more to develop than just adding two identical usb-c 3.x ports...
error503 1 hour ago|||
Why would it be non-standard? USB-PD is almost completely decoupled from the rest of USB, and USB-C connector doesn't imply 'super speed' lanes are available. The only thing it really changes from an implementation perspective is that you don't have to route high speed lanes to the port, and don't need them to be available on your USB controller.

Doesn't seem to be very Apple-like to have two identical looking ports with different function, though.

nicoburns 3 hours ago||||
I suspect the limitation is that the SOC doesn't have the IO bandwidth to support two ports at usb 3 speeds (remembering that the SOC was designed for iphones which physically only have one port).
blacksmith_tb 23 minutes ago||
Ah, that's a good point, it would make sense (and be a small but real gotcha of using a phone CPU in a laptop).
wtallis 1 hour ago|||
I'm not sure exactly what the USB specs require, but there are a lot of phones out there that only support USB 2.0 data speed but do implement the current fast charging protocols. It's absolutely a mainstream thing.
hadlock 2 hours ago|||
USB-C PD (power delivery) has been a standard for over a decade now. I first used it on a Nexus 4 or 5, and later on a Chromebook Pixel in 2016. It would be surprising for apple to not use that standard, particularly when both ports are probably run from the same controller.
Someone 3 hours ago||
> That means you can charge and use the fast usb port at the same time.

For some use cases, you can do that with a single USB port, too. For example, a single USB cable connected to a monitor can both send video and charge the laptop.

nicoburns 2 hours ago||
Sure, but it's certainly convenient to have two ports
xp84 2 hours ago||
> You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality.

Interesting metrics, though I'd add that if you count storage and memory as metrics, it'd be hard to find a worse PC laptop. And I don't see why we should artificially exclude ARM PC laptops from the comparison.

https://www.bestbuy.com/product/asus-vivobook-14-wuxga-lapto...

2x the RAM and 2x the storage isn't meaningless to a lot of people.

The PC has a single-core geekbench around 2100 single / 10,000 multicore. The Neo is apparently in the range of 3600 / 9,000 multicore.

No arguments on the Mac's screen being way nicer though. However, the low-end computer market - unlike most of us on HN - has never cared about pixel density, color accuracy, or really any screen specs other than size (Looks like the Asus has the Mac by an inch on that spec).

Bottom line, for a high-end Chromebook replacement (literally everything is done in the cloud, so storage doesn't matter, and only running a browser, so RAM isn't a big deal), as long as it's for someone who will take care of such a delicate device, the Neo is pretty great. For everyone else, it's debatable.

> And certainly not software quality.

This is most definitely only a little true in that Windows has jumped the shark lately with ads and various enshittification, and thus ties with Mac OS. Tahoe is without a doubt the worst Mac OS ever released. It's both poor quality and poorly designed.

zarzavat 2 hours ago||
The manufacturers don't care about display quality, because displays are hard and expensive. Apple has enough volume that they can get a custom panel.

Users on the other hand, they definitely care about display quality more than they care about RAM. The display is the part you look at!

If you're in store and there's a Neo with a crisp 200 PPI screen and a Windows laptop with a cheap screen but more RAM, the vast majority of consumers will choose the laptop with the better display. People make purchasing decisions based on feels and the Neo has great feels.

fsh 1 hour ago||
On the contrary, displays are commodity components. So much so that motivated enthusiasts have managed to swap better panels into their ThinkPads for a long time. Manufacturers don't prioritize display quality in cheap devices because it doesn't show up on the spec sheet and most customers don't care that much.
zarzavat 25 minutes ago||
Consumers don't read spec sheets. My mother doesn't even know the difference between RAM and SSD - it's all just "memory" right? But she knows that when she goes to the Apple Store the computers are built to an impressive standard.

Quality speaks for itself, and the way that people buy computers is through their eyes and fingertips, not their heads.

Go to the Apple Store and just observe how people make their buying decisions. They don't just look at the spec sheet, they lift, type on, caress the computers. They want to know how it will feel to own one.

officeplant 1 hour ago|||
>And I don't see why we should artificially exclude ARM PC laptops from the comparison.

As an ARM enthusiast who has tried a lot of WinARM, I think at this point I really struggle to believe MS has a single care in the world for improving quality of life for WinARM users. They sure do market it, and the laptops do work most of the time. I've just never had any other computers shit the bed when it comes to graphics drivers like a Qualcomm powered PC. Website with too many video/gifs playing? Screen whites out/all the video boxes go pink and explorer resets. Open up the gif search in Discord? Basically a coin flip chance its going to kill the graphics driver and reset explorer again. I had a Dell Inspiron with the Qualcomm 8CX Gen2 that could reliably be crashed just by quickly scrolling twitter on a video posting heavy day.

I would rather take a Mediatek powered Chromebook any other day until the Neo showed up and started to approach the sub $500 ARM chromebook price point.

DauntingPear7 1 hour ago||
I also am not a huge fan of the 256GB storage, but if someone doesn’t already know what ram is, they really won’t care and won’t notice much. I’m a tech guy. I bought an M1 air with 256GB storage and 8GB RAM. I was able to do development and mobile development fine. I never encountered RAM related slowdowns. I have an iCloud subscription because I don’t want to manage my own NAS. This is a heavier use case than what, say, a normal college student will do with it, and it worked just fine for me. This is by far the best laptop I have seen in this bracket. If I was just heading to college today, and I didn’t have the money for a Pro or Air, I would 100% get this far before a windows laptop.
yegle 1 hour ago||
> The A9, in 2015, benchmarked comparably to a two-year-old MacBook Air from 2013. More impressively, it outperformed the then-new no-adjective 12-inch MacBook in single-core performance (by a factor of roughly 1.1×) and was only 3 percent slower in multi-core.

Too bad that performance is (still) locked in the walled garden and cannot be used as a small Linux server.

jackhalford 17 hours ago|
> Given Apple's historically very premium pricing, launching such an affordable product is certainly a shock to the entire market

No? Apple has been delivering way cheaper laptops ever since M1, this one is just even cheaper. I thought PC execs were asleep at the wheel but not this bad.

alwillis 6 hours ago|
> Apple has been delivering way cheaper laptops ever since M1

I wouldn’t "way cheaper".

A baseline Neo with 256GB SSD is $599 vs the first M1 MacBook Air with 256GB SSD was $999 ($1,251.09 in 2026 dollars)

A Neo with 512GB SSD is $699 vs the M1 MacBook Air with 512GB SSD was $1249--that's $1,568.38 in 2026 dollars.

So this is a big deal; the Neo is the first Apple Silicon MacBook where the starting price is less than $999.

ndiddy 1 hour ago||
Apple sold the the base model M1 Macbook Air through Walmart for $600 between when they stopped selling it directly up to early this year. It looks like this computer is about as performant as that one, so I guess they started to have trouble sourcing components and came up with the Neo as their replacement.
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