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Posted by JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago

US private credit defaults hit record 9.2% in 2025, Fitch says(www.marketscreener.com)
114 points | 119 commentspage 2
javcasas 2 hours ago|
I have been following this development for a couple weeks, and now it's on HN. How long until the elevator guy tells me about it?
ycombinatornews 2 hours ago|
You have an elevator guy?! /s
bArray 3 hours ago||
https://web.archive.org/web/20260312130613/https://www.marke...

^ Encase the link also responds with this for you:

    Access Denied

    You don't have permission to access "http://www.marketscreener.com/news/us-private-credit-defaults-hit-record-9-2-in-2025-fitch-says-ce7e5fd8df8fff2d" on this server.
cmiles8 3 hours ago||
Private credit is cracking and lending standards are tightening behind the scenes. If you’re not building cash reserves right now you’re going to wish you had. The distressed opportunities ahead go to whoever kept dry powder while everyone else was chasing growth.

If your business is light on free cash flow (ie everyone in AI at the moment) buckle up as there are storm clouds ahead. If you’re running a business that relies on external cash (VCs, loans/bonds, etc) to keep things going things will get very ugly.

derwiki 2 hours ago||
This is not my field of expertise, but I modeled keeping cash reserves to buy distressed assets. Unless I was able to perfectly predict the crash, the outcome was still better to not time the market.
mothballed 3 hours ago|||
Well it only took 5 years of destroying responsible savers with every policy imaginable to make sure they get crushed by those who availed themselves of the negative real rate loan inflation machine. How many people are left remaining that were dumb enough to take that strategy and are still standing? If you were operating on a cash basis for the last 5 years you were mostly wiped out by people leveraged to the 9s on debts and meanwhile your buying power was erased.
cmiles8 3 hours ago||
Interest rates on things like CDs and low-risk bonds have been decent for a while now. It’s not been painful to sit on cash reserves provided you were smart about where the cash was parked.

It’s not an either/or, it’s just a question of who was participating in the boom while preparing for storms ahead vs those all in on the boom.

What implodes in the period ahead are things that are massively over leveraged and can’t absorb a hit without doubling down again with more funding/loans and such. These are the folks and companies that get wiped out.

b112 2 hours ago|||
Interest rates on things like CDs and low-risk bonds have been decent for a while now. It’s not been painful to sit on cash reserves provided you were smart about where the cash was parked.

Just make sure you can unpark it, else you're SVB.

hnfong 2 hours ago||||
It's decent only if you believe inflation = CPI

In actuality, the CPI is lower than inflation because technological advancement, automation, and economies of scale (due to globalization etc) are driving consumer prices low. In other words, if factories are still producing things like they were 20 years ago, the CPI would have been much higher, and that higher number is closer to what should have been the inflation number.

ifwinterco 2 hours ago|||
A better measure is what % of the total money supply you have.

I.e. you started out with 2e-20 % of the total money, and after 5 years you now have 1e-20 % of the total money, then whatever happened to CPI, you've been diluted and you would probably have been better off investing in something else other than cash.

That makes sense in theory, but in reality what "total money supply" is is a complete can of worms and basically impossible to measure

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago|||
> if factories are still producing things like they were 20 years ago, the CPI would have been much higher, and that higher number is closer to what should have been the inflation number

This is an impossible counterfactual to test. In reality, tracking value across time requires adjusting for immeasurable preferences. This is why inflation is really only a useful measure for personal purposes across periods of years. It’s only macro economically interesting across a generation and close to meaningless longer than a human lifespan.

hnfong 1 hour ago||
I think it's so obvious that no testing is needed, but generally I don't disagree with your take.

The thing is one really needs to understand what "real yields" mean when investing in bonds, i.e. it means your purchasing power with respect to cheap commodities tracked by the CPI is preserved, but it doesn't necessarily mean "value" (whatever that means in the abstract) is retained.

JumpCrisscross 1 hour ago||
> it means your purchasing power with respect to cheap commodities tracked by the CPI is preserved

CPI isn't a measure of commodities. And "CPI" is a bit of shorthand, given there are pretty much as many measures of consumer and producer prices as there are economists.

> it doesn't necessarily mean "value" (whatever that means in the abstract) is retained

This is what any measure of inflation ultimately seeks to measure. Purchasing power is intrinsically tied to the basket of goods and services its measuring. That basket varies across people and time as preferences vary.

uneoneuno 2 hours ago||||
You're not wrong it's always good to have cash but certain allocations could have done 50%-100% return on investment while a CD brought ~5.5% for a while. Look at S&P since 2021. Knowing when to transition from cash, liquidity, other instruments is what kills/allows people to survive. We can't all do the same thing, it's almost as if it's economic ecological evolution, random death.
hypeatei 2 hours ago|||
Decent is fine if you're about to retire and want to avoid risk but I wouldn't recommend parking your wealth in CDs/bonds if your retirement is still 15+ years out, personally. The government has to print money to bail itself out which means things are going to inflate quite a bit, just look at what gold has done in anticipation of this.

Banks bailed out the hedge funds in '98, then the taxpayer bailed out the banks in '08, then the government bailed out the taxpayer in '20... now monetary policy from the fed has to prevent the government from defaulting.

coldpie 3 hours ago||
> If you’re running a business that relies on external cash (VCs, loans/bonds, etc) to keep things going things will get very ugly.

Honestly thrilled to hear it. The AI bubble needs to burst so we can find out what's actually useful, start requiring real business models again, and get rid of all the noise and waste.

alecco 2 hours ago|||
The problem is all these over-leveraged sectors will drag everybody else. And guess who will be bailed out? Heads they win, tails everybody but them loses.
coldpie 2 hours ago|||
> The problem is all these over-leveraged sectors will drag everybody else

Well, the good news is that's what good public policy is for, to blunt the impact of the damage with strong anti-trust enforcement and careful cash injections to weak-but-critical areas of the economy to help stabilize in rough times.

Now, hang on for just one moment while I crawl out from under this rock and take a look at who we have entrusted to set our public policy.

franktankbank 2 hours ago|||
Assets don't disappear they get bidded.
alecco 2 hours ago|||
And who buys those troubled assets at deep discount? Where do they get the cash to pay for them?
mschuster91 2 hours ago|||
The problem is, what assets remain of a company that doesn't own anything material? OpenAI, Anthropic - they don't own datacenters that could be auctioned off. All they own is training data and trained weights, and both are relatively worthless.

The game that all the AI companies are playing is to be the last dog standing at all costs, because that kind of dominance is a money printer.

tsunamifury 2 hours ago|||
Most business is noise and waste. I love that no one gets that.

It’s like hoping for the apocalypse thinking you’re of course the hardcore survivalist. When in reality you’ll get eaten first.

hnthrow0287345 3 hours ago||
People have cried wolf or been wrong about incoming crashes and bubble pops so many times that this signal -- whether it's a good signal or not -- simply won't change anything I do.

I'm sure someone somewhere could make a trade off of this article and this signal is definitely for them.

vmbm 2 hours ago||
It is incredibly hard to make money going short. Even if you are right about the direction, most short positions require interest payments to hold, or have some sort of decay built into the structure. So timing is everything and even then, if the underlying security slowly grinds down (instead of a quick abrupt move) you could still lose if the interest/decay on the short position outruns the downward movement on the underlying.

I have been actively trading in the market for a little over a year now, and while winning on a short position is probably the most satisfying trade for me, the overwhelming majority of those trades are losses and at this point I mostly treat them as hedges. I suspect that is true for most market participants as well.

ifwinterco 2 hours ago||
There's actually (at least) three things going against you going short:

- position has significant negative carry (what you're talking about there)

- stock/bond prices are nominal and the government constantly prints the denominator so prices tend to go up even if there's no actual growth

- for equities there is a genuine long term positive drift over time even if the denominator doesn't change

So yes, it's hard to make money going short and timing is everything

bluGill 3 hours ago|||
Even if this was a reliable signal for most of us it shouldn't change anyway. Timing the market is hard, so if you have a job keep investing in your retirement accounts and let dollar cost averaging work it out - odds are you are buying at fire sale prices. If you are one of those who lose your job - it doesn't matter much if the economy is good or bad, you need to adjust a lot of things (even in the best of times sometimes by chance you can be out of work for a long time)

If you are the manager of a mutual fund you can take useful action on signals like this if you can figure out what they mean. Most people don't have enough money to be worth trying to take action.

bittercynic 2 hours ago||
You may not be able to properly let dollar cost averaging do its thing if you rely on your job to invest, since there's a high correlation between periods where people are out of work and periods where asset prices are lower.
bluGill 2 hours ago||
Even in the worst part of the great depression 75% of the people had a job. Most years where much better.

Don't get me wrong, if you don't have a job things are bad. If you have a job but it isn't giving good raises, or it is a worse job than you are qualified for things are bad. However things are not hopeless for the majority of people even when things are really bad, and you can get through it.

jfengel 2 hours ago||
"Signals" are rubbish. The market is irrational and will change its mind at random.

This is, however, one of many indicators of an overall wobbling system. It would be a good time, not make the line go up, but to look for ways to stabilize the economy as a whole.

Which is unfortunately a hard question. One could theorize that we should do different things than the thing we've been doing for the past year or so, but of course there will be many who say that we just haven't done it hard enough yet.

_ache_ 2 hours ago||
What the hell ?! Nearly 10% ?! How can it be?! World wide, it seems to be around 4% since 2004.

Page 22 (French but it's just numbers, you can read it). <https://www.eib.org/files/publications/thematic/gems_default...>

Ekaros 2 hours ago|
It is easy to keep your head above water level for surprisingly long times. Just look how some people in retail manage to rack up credit card and other type of debt.

And it is especially so when money given is not their own, but instead they get to take cut. Which these funds can do. They might even just take promises that you will pay in future and even allow adding the interest on top of loan amount. Numbers look good, bonuses look good.

Fundamentally this can only last so long and now is the time it starts to blow up.

tsunamifury 2 hours ago||
Yea the market will correct any time now from 2009.

Things will stay the way they are for as long as people want them to. The economy and money is fundamentally made up. It’s so funny when these types come out and start talking about made up fundamentals as if they are physics.

persecutor 3 hours ago||
Go figure. Employers don't want to pay living wages or hire.
WarmWash 2 hours ago|
Employers will never be able to pay a living wage, because the real problem is a lack of housing. Rents and mortgages will always outrun wage increases in the current market.
mikkupikku 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
SegfaultSeagull 2 hours ago|
This comment should be flagged for casting aspersions on a minority group.
mikkupikku 1 hour ago||
Zionism is an ideology, not a "minority group". People associate with it due to their values (most often, Christianity), not because of the way they were born.
FrustratedMonky 3 hours ago||
The US Ponzi scheme coming to an end. It works great while everything is going up.

2008 Financial Crisis was triggered by Oil prices. There were lots of problematic structural elements that were fine if nobody looked close. Oil was just the sideway hit on the building to knock it over.

Just takes a nudge to collapse. And here we go again.

reliabilityguy 3 hours ago||
> 2008 Financial Crisis was triggered by Oil prices.

Not by the subprime mortgages given to anyone with a pulse?

floatrock 3 hours ago|||
I thought it was by the layers upon layers of interconnected unregulated derivatives valued at a few orders of magnitude above the underlying subprime mortgages given to anyone with a pulse.
JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago|||
> it was by the layers upon layers of interconnected unregulated derivatives valued at a few orders of magnitude above the underlying subprime mortgages given to anyone with a pulse

It was interconnected derivatives and structured products linked to banks that caused a liquidity crisis in the former to cause a crisis of confidence in the latter.

Meanwhile: "In the letter, Morgan Stanley said the fund wasn’t designed to offer full liquidity because of the nature of its investments, and that credit fundamentals across the underlying portfolio have been broadly stable. The bank's shares fell 2% in premarket trading Thursday" [1].

[1] https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp-5...

kryogen1c 2 hours ago||
> liquidity crisis in the former to cause a crisis of confidence in the latter

Wait what? Your thesis is the GFC was caused by a liquidity crunch/bank run? Isn't that... not true?

Isn't the proximal to distal chain of events government encouraged subprime loans -> inaacurately valued MBS -> exponential, unregulated derivative instruments -> leveraged contagion. What does market confidence have to do with any of that?

JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago||
> your thesis is the GFC was caused by a liquidity crunch/bank run? Isn't that... not true?

It's absolutely proximally true and it's not just my thesis. From Wikipedia: "The first phase of the crisis was the subprime mortgage crisis, which began in early 2007, as mortgage-backed securities (MBS) tied to U.S. real estate, and a vast web of derivatives linked to those MBS, collapsed in value. A liquidity crisis spread to global institutions by mid-2007 and climaxed with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September 2008, which triggered a stock market crash and bank runs in several countries" [1].

> government encouraged subprime loans -> inaacurately valued MBS -> exponential, unregulated derivative instruments -> leveraged contagion

The subprime crisis shouldn't have been bigger than the S&L crisis [2]. What turned it into a financial crisis was the credit crunch that followed. That crunch was caused by folks running on banks that had sponsored these products.

On "inaccurately valued MBS," note that the paper marked AAA mostly paid out like a AAA security. It would be like if you were perfectly good for your word and I lent you money, but then I wanted to sell on that debt to a third party who didn't trust you at a 50% discount. What does "properly valued" mean in that context? It's ambiguous in a dangerous way. (In this analogy, you wind up paying back the debt at face value. But years later, albeit on schedule.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_financial_crisis

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis

FrustratedMonky 3 hours ago|||
That was the structural problem. Definitely bad. A weak economy propped up by some 'fake' money.

Oil was more of the outside force that put a shock to that weak system.

marcosdumay 2 hours ago||||
I think the GP is trying to say that oil prices where the nudge that pushed the bad loans and derivatives out of stability.

I don't remember oil getting expensive back then, but it's a long time ago.

naijaboiler 2 hours ago||
it did. GFC was a financial recession no doubt, but oil prices was one of the final things that tipped everything over. Oil prices climbed high, slowed economic activity a bit, and the whole financial that teetering just collapsed.
m0llusk 3 hours ago||||
There were many involved factors, but the 2008 financial crisis was started when Ben Bernanke raised interest rates.
alphawhisky 3 hours ago||||
Now the subprime credit of entire cities is being sold bank to bank. I'd argue that's a direct escalation of the 2008 credit crisis.
FrustratedMonky 3 hours ago|||
That was the structural problem.

But it was swept under the rug, it was hidden by market constantly going up.

Ponzi schemes can hide in a market going up, because nobody is trying to pull money back out.

Suddenly everyone wanting their money, and the shortfall suddenly become apparent.

Oil prices suddenly made everyone try to pull money out, and 'woops there is nothing here'.

floatrock 3 hours ago||
I did make a snarky derivatives comment elsewhere in the thread, but I do see you're not wrong about oil prices peaking at $138 in June 2008 (Lehman collapsed in September 2008): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DCOILBRENTEU
jacquesm 3 hours ago|||
This time it took ~35 blows with a sledgehammer. You have to be impressed with the degree of resilience here, even a chaos monkey like Trump has a hard time completely destroying the US economy even when all checks & balances utterly fail.
fabian2k 3 hours ago|||
It feels a bit like in a Road Runner cartoon. We already ran well past the cliff, just haven't noticed yet that we should be falling down.
ToucanLoucan 3 hours ago|||
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. One of probably hundreds of mediocre failsons gifted unbelievable wealth in the birth lottery who’s greatest achievement in life was managing to not lose all of it to his awful business acumen and utter refusal to listen to a single living person.

Every industry’s leadership is full of trumps, many more palatable personally, many far better spoken, many even with better politics but none fundamentally are any actually better for society. They don’t understand their company, the products it makes, they have utterly no care for anything besides the quarterly stock price and their lack of care costs real people their jobs and ruins the products we use every day.

And, they are why every company is ripping the copper out of its own walls instead of actually building a business that will last.

nine_zeros 3 hours ago||
[dead]
persecutor 3 hours ago||
Go figure. Employers don't want to pay living wages or hire anyone these days.
rvnx 2 hours ago|
Pretty sure the solution that US politicians will find will be to create new dollars out of thin air, so instead of increasing taxes they increase the money supply.

Of course this is going to increase prices, but then they can blame China / Russia / Iran whoever is the scapegoat at that time.

tartoran 2 hours ago|
That’s a tax on the poor
bee_rider 2 hours ago||
It would cause inflation, isn’t that sort of a tax on people who have more wealth than income? (Which includes people like retirees, so, I’m not saying this is a universally good thing).
ziml77 2 hours ago|||
Theoretically yes, but in practice the wages of people already not making much have not tracked inflation and there's no reason to believe that they will now. That means any inflation is also a tax on them.
bad_haircut72 2 hours ago||||
No because assets hold their worth. Poor people have no assets
mothballed 2 hours ago||
Poor people are hit a lot harder, but rich still have to pay capital gains on inflation even despite having no real change in value. So the rich pay inflation at the rate * 0.2. Poor pay it at the rate * 1.0 (5x the rate of the rich).
JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago||
> rich still have to pay capital gains on inflation

“Pay” is doing a lot of work there. My house is half equity half debt. The debt gets to be paid off with inflated dollars. And I pay no capital gains on the appreciation. I can, however, tap it for liquidity if I need it.

mothballed 2 hours ago||
Rich people don't tend to have a sizeable portion of their worth tied up in their primary residence (and even then, IIRC there is a cap on capital gains exception), otherwise property tax would turn into a wealth tax for them which obviously they want to avoid. Non-primary residences still require paying capital gains. The inflated value you paid off with debt for a non-primary residence still gets captured as capital gain in the end when you actually want to sell the house for money.
JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago||
You're right, thanks.
hammock 2 hours ago||||
Isn’t it the opposite? Salaries are sticky while asset prices rise freely with the liquidity of the market for them
JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago|||
> isn’t that sort of a tax on people who have more wealth

Classically, yes, particularly when that wealth is closer to productive capital. In modern economies, the rich also hold a lot of debt, which lets them benefit from inflation.