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Posted by tosh 7 hours ago

Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine(www.macrumors.com)
82 points | 102 commentspage 2
joe_mamba 6 hours ago|
Man, I do wonder what the realistic lifespan of that single NAND chip will be after it gets hammered by constant swapping of running tasks way beyond the capabilities of a 8GB RAM machine.

I have a PC with a 10+ year old 256GB SATA Samsung SSD that's still in top shape, but that's different because that drive has those 256GB split over several NAND chips inside, so wear is spread out and shuffled around by the controller to extend lifespan. But when your entire wearable storage is a single soldered chip, I'm not very optimistic about long term reliability.

havaloc 5 hours ago||
There was quite a bit of discussion about that when the M1 first came out, but none of it really seemed to have happened six years later. The target audience isn't in danger of wearing it out and the ones that will push the limits will grow tired of it and sell it in a year or two or move on to the Neo 2, which might have 12gb of ram due to the expected chip.

I still think it's a great machine, but I think all these worries about NAND dying really haven't come to fruition, and probably won't. I have about a hundred plus of various SSD Macs in service and not one has failed in any circumstance aside from a couple of battery issues (never charged and sat in the box for 2 years, and never off the charger).

joe_mamba 4 hours ago||
>There was quite a bit of discussion about that when the M1 first came out, but none of it really seemed to have happened six years later.

1. How do you know nothing happened? Define nothing in this case. Do Mac users check and report their SSD wear anywhere?

2. Didn't the OG 256gb M1 have 2 128MB NAND chips instead of one 256 meaning better wear resistance?

duskwuff 38 minutes ago|||
> Do Mac users check and report their SSD wear anywhere?

As a data point: I got a 14" MacBook Pro with a 512 GB SSD the first day it was available in 2021, and I've used it daily since then.

According to the SMART data ("smartctl -x /dev/disk0"), the SSD "percentage used" is 7%, with ~200 TBW. At this rate, the laptop will probably outlive me.

randomfrogs 4 hours ago|||
If swapping was causing SSDs to fail on M1 Macs, we would never see the end of the hysterical articles about "NANDgate". Since we haven't seen any in all these years, it's seems pretty certain it's not happening.
joe_mamba 4 hours ago||
Hysteria would be if all had an issue like the keyboard gate, but this isn't an issue, it's a design limitation for certain uses cases which not everyone has. Some users will wear out faster than others due to usage patterns. If their M1 dies after 6 years of heavy usage, do you think they'll investigate if it was the NAND that died and go online to tell the news, or will they chuck it and buy new one?

NAND is still the same wearable part that regular X64 laptops have, Apple doesn't use some magic industrial grade parts but same dies that Samsung, Micron and SK ship to X64 OEMS, and those are replaceable for a reason, because they eventually fail.

windowsrookie 2 hours ago||
The reality is most 8GB M1 Macs are still working just fine 6 years later. Power users know they need more than 8GB of RAM and will buy a MacBook Air or Pro with 16GB+.

The MacBook neo is for students, grandparents, travel, etc.

Hell, even if it dies after 6 years it was still a better experience than using a $500-600 windows PC and the cost comes out to ~$8/month spread over 6 years.

joe_mamba 1 hour ago||
>The reality is most 8GB M1 Macs are still working just fine 6 years later.

Do you think SSD drives are replaceable for no reason? Just because M1 mac aren't failing left and right doesn't mean their NAND won't fail.

Even though I like the NEO, I can't in good faith buy a machine with soldered wearable parts. That's like buying a car with soldered brake pads because "in 6 years average users don't feel like they need changing".

I still had laptops on my hands from 20 years ago that work fine simply because you can swap their drives with fresh ones. How many M1 mac will still be functional in 20 years?

windowsrookie 36 minutes ago|||
"How many M1 mac will still be functional in 20 years?"

Probably quite a few, MacBooks have had soldered SSD's for over 10 years now. My 2018 McBook Pro still has a perfectly functioning SSD. I still see people using 2015 and older MacBooks all the time. There is no widespread SSD failure issue after 10+ years of Apple soldering the SSD's.

For most people the SSD's are lasting longer than the useful life of the device.

astrange 12 minutes ago|||
Just because it's soldered doesn't mean it can't be replaced.

(But it's encrypted, so you'd better have backups because you can't read it off the chips.)

gruez 5 hours ago|||
>but that's different because that drive has those 256GB split over several NAND chips inside, so wear is spread out and shuffled around by the controller to extend lifespan. But when your entire wearable storage is a single soldered chip, I'm not very optimistic about long term reliability.

I thought wear leveling worked at the page/block level, not the chip level? On an SSD, if there was a failure of an entire chip, you're still screwed.

aruametello 5 hours ago|||
from what i seen in "low end" ssds like the "120gb sata sandisk ones" under windows in heavy near constant pagging loads is that they exceed by quite a lot their manufacturer lifetime TBW before actually actually started producing actual filesystem errors.

I can see this could be a weaker spot in the durability of this device, but certainly it still could take a few years of abuse before anything breaks.

an outdated study (2015) but inline with the "low end ssds" i mentioned.

https://techreport.com/review/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-t...

foldr 1 hour ago|||
The M2 MacBook Air base model has 8GB RAM and a single 256GB NAND chip. Nearly 4 years later, it doesn't seem to have caused any problems.
stackskipton 5 hours ago||
Most flash has average wear out after 300k cycles. Let's say 64GB is used for swap. That's 19200 TB or 19.2 PETABYTES of Swap usage. Let's say you swap 12GB a day, you will burn out that 64GB of Flash Storage in 4.38 years and my guess is that amount of swap usage is extremely high that user would probably replace laptop sooner out of performance frustration.
gruez 4 hours ago|||
>Most flash has average wear out after 300k cycles

No it doesn't. Most 1TB drives are rated for around 600 TBW, so enough to overwrite the drive 600 times, nowhere near 300k cycles. If you search for specs of NAND chips used in SSDs, you'll find they're rated for cycles on the order of hundreds to thousands, still nowhere near "300k".

https://www.techpowerup.com/ssd-specs/crucial-mx500-4-tb.d95...

bryanlarsen 4 hours ago||||
12GB a day isn't very much. If your working set is larger than the 8GB RAM, you're swapping multiple times per second. It doesn't take very many megabytes per swap to reach 12GB if you're doing that multiple times per second.
seabass-salmon 5 hours ago|||
that doesn't maths
bfrog 5 hours ago||
Funnily it probably runs Windows better than the typical corporate spyware burdened x86 laptop.
Aurornis 4 hours ago||
Every thread about Windows on Hacker News includes claims about apps taking 30 seconds to launch, web pages taking 20 seconds to load, simple applications being unusable, and other extreme performance problems. These are puzzling for anyone (like me) who uses Windows at home without all of these extreme performance problems.

That was until I realized how many reports are coming from people talking about their work laptops loaded with endpoint management and security software. Some of those endpoint control solutions are so heavy that the laptop feels like you've traveled back in time 15 years and you're using a mechanical hard drive.

everdrive 3 hours ago|||
There's an unspoken rule in corporate America, colleges, etc. Laptops MUST be loaded down with terrible software, no exceptions. My last corporate laptop actually had the paid version of winzip in 2025, and it ran with a little tray icon that I couldn't disable or remove. That was in addition to all the other corporate crap I couldn't remove.

Some of this is not _just_ a corporate problem. Why would Winzip have an auto run application and tray application in the first place? Every single app seems to think they need one, and it's a classical tragedy of the commons. Perhaps on a virgin Windows install, your app with autorun and a tray icon will be more responsive. But when 20 other apps pull that same trick, no one wins.

This is actually one of the reasons I'm not excited at the idea of Linux defeating Windows. If it did, corporations would just start crapping up Linux the way they've crapped up Windows.

capitainenemo 3 hours ago|||
Our corporate linux machines have exactly the same monitoring software as Windows - even the servers. The performance is still not even remotely comparable. Could be the hooks are more performant on linux, could be the filesystem, maybe the tools are written more sanely... But loading apps, filesystem operations... Everything is still far faster on the linux dev instance. And I have half the ram allocated to that one.
simulator5g 2 hours ago|||
The reason every developer makes their app open at startup, is because the Windows ecosystem doesn't have a good package manager. So every app needs to be its own package manager and check for updates on a timer. So they need to run all the time so they can run that timer.
axus 2 hours ago||
In theory the Windows Store will handle updates. In practice, I avoid the Windows Store version of applications. Also, you can't turn off app updating, only pause them for a time.
ASalazarMX 2 hours ago||||
I like videogames, maybe more than I should at my age, and I prefer to play them from Steam in Linux through Proton. A couple of months ago I caved in and bought a proper Windows gaming miniPC because a game I want is not stable in Proton.

I use a corporate Windows VDI at work, so the experience is understandably subpar there, but it is still horrible on high.end hardware. Took me half a day just to herd it through update after update, while avoiding linking it to a Microsoft account despite its protests.

It's literally used to run only Steam and Firefox, and it still sucks compared to the ease of install/management of Linux. Ubuntu LTS took me about an hour to set up dual boot, apply updates, install Steam, and every other software and tool I use daily.

Why is Windows 11 still so clunky in 2026? It doesn't feel like the flagship product that many bright minds have improved for three decades. Why are hobbyists and small companies outperforming Microsoft's OS management?

zbentley 3 hours ago||||
I once worked on a computer for the US Government that felt slow. I counted nine (9) directly competitive and redundant endpoint protection products on it.

Not nine different/only somewhat overlapping pieces of software from companies that were competitors. Nine equivalent products. I guess defender made ten.

MBCook 22 minutes ago|||
In college I remember one room had some kind of all-in-one PCs built into the desks. It would have been useful.

Except they were unusably slow. Literally.

Log in when class starts, you may get control after 10+ minutes. Opening a web browser was a mistake you may not live to regret.

The network there was not fast. The various security stuff slowed every computer down a lot.

I suspect they were already older and maybe underspec. Probably had 4200 RPM disks or something.

But the combination meant they were 100% worthless.

ASalazarMX 2 hours ago||||
Ten protection layers! This is the reverse of the seven proxies meme.
mounram 1 hour ago|||
Can you elaborate?
toast0 3 hours ago||||
Corporate spyware is pretty nasty, regardless of platform. When I was at FB, they had something that forced a kernel module that was incompatible with the next big OS release; and I had accidentally disabled the FB spyware scripts. I set /etc/hosts to immutable because I was tired of them fucking with it ... didn't realize that's why things were better for the next 3 months, until I did the major update and I had to fix things from safe mode ... where everything only barely works.

Microsoft also puts a lot of crap into a default install that you may want to disable. Windows 11 with some judicious policy editor settings isn't so awful.

nirava 2 hours ago||||
Outside corporate setting, it is also the fact that most windows systems you encounter are installed on cheap machines by people who just care that their word processor works a few times a month. And you were probably forced to fix it.

At the same time, as someone with a well maintained Windows gaming rig, I don't like spending time in the OS these days. Something about transparently doing stuff that puts money in their pocket while inconveniencing me gives me the ick.

MBCook 16 minutes ago||
And Windows laptops are such a commodity business that prices are incredibly low. So PC makers load ‘em up with junk because they get paid for those deals.

They are more incentivized by that than the few lost sales from people who know better to look for low crud machines.

And on more expensive machines they’d just be leaving money on the table. So they still often ship bundled crud.

Similar to spyware on TVs. Margins are razor thin. They’re going to make them up somewhere.

simulator5g 2 hours ago||||
No this is not just an enterprise issue. I waited 10 seconds (I counted.) for a Windows Explorer context menu to open the other day. This is on a fully decked out system with an Ultra 9 cpu and a 4090 and 32gb of memory, and basically no apps running. I think I had 2 tabs in Edge? Windows is a shitshow these days.
gamblor956 2 hours ago||
I just tried to open the context menu in Windows Explorer. It showed up almost as soon as I released the mouse button, and I have a much slower CPU, older video card, and way less RAM then you do. I was also running 12 windows of Firefox with collectively 1000+ tabs (though only about 36 or loaded), Steam, a Unity game, and Microsoft Teams, plus a number of background programs.

If your Explorer context menu is taking more than a split second to load, there's something wrong with your hardware.

Rohansi 1 hour ago||
Other than hardware it could also be some third-party software hooking into Explorer to do who knows what.
bfrog 2 hours ago||||
Oh yeah no... its still terrible even without all the spyware.

First experience of Windows 11, trying to download a file through firefox caused my 18 core 10980xe to have the entire UI freeze for the full time the download was going.

Reverted back to windows 10 immediately and the problem went away.

Windows 11 is full of spyware from the Mothership

QuercusMax 2 hours ago|||
I've said for decades that from a user perspective, malware scanners and prevention tools are fundamentally indistinguishable from actual malware. They intercept file accesses, block you from doing what you want to do, pop things up all over the place, and make your machine slow aand unreliable.
nazgulsenpai 5 hours ago|||
Took 6 minutes from power button to login prompt this morning. Probably even longer from login responsive desktop. So yes, probably!
amluto 5 hours ago|||
I’ve helped someone with a rather clean iMac, circa 2019, still supported by Apple. Forget 6 minutes — you can spend a full hour from boot to giving up trying to get anything done.

I think that Apple has gotten so used to having fast storage in their machines that the newer OSes basically don’t work on spinning rust.

asimovDev 3 hours ago||
these iMacs have horrible Fusion drives (128GB SSD + 1TB HDD combo) iirc that fail often. Have you looked into that?
asimovDev 3 hours ago|||
what? on a semi modern CPU and a SATA / M2 SSD?? My Vista laptop on a spinning drive took that long to boot I am pretty sure. I am flabbergasted if this is true
kyriakos 3 hours ago|||
corporate laptops is the key here. take 2 identical laptops one with and one without the spyware - its night and day in both performance and battery life.
gamblor956 2 hours ago|||
My corporate spyware laden Surface ARM runs Windows faster than the Macbook Neo, but unlike the Neo can survive a fall onto a concrete floor. (Ask how I know...)

My home laptop is even faster.

Someone 1 hour ago||
How do you know a Neo cannot survive a fall onto a concrete floor? I think it would take at least ten tests each with a new machine to get some confidence of the impossibility of that.
kotaKat 4 hours ago|||
Geekbench 6 was around ~2600 single-core with the VM overhead for me. That's still punching above single-core power in its class for Windows machines and it makes me giggle.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/17011372

This was the latest UTM in the App Store, so native Hypervisor.Framework access for arm64 Windows acceleration.

joe_mamba 4 hours ago||
Wouldn't corporate spyware equally burden the NEO? Especially more give the 8GB of RAM vs 16+ on X64 laptops? Chrome, Teams, IDEs, websites etc are equally bloated on both platforms.
MBCook 10 minutes ago|||
Yep.

A Neo will win a race with a similar speed Windows computer full of bundled crap and security slop.

But it would work the other way around too.

The nice thing about Macs is even if you see a lot of what Apple puts on the computers as useless trash (“Why the hell do I need iBooks?”) it’s not stuff running in the background interfering with everything you do the way bad PC security software bundled on cheap Windows PCs or forced by corporate often does.

I can tell you my last work Mac slowed down noticeably (though not too bad, luckily) the day they decided to put the corporate security crud on it.

The newer security crud we use now seems much better behaved though.

TiredOfLife 4 hours ago|||
The cpu in Neo is 2-3 times faster.
joe_mamba 4 hours ago||
My (former) corpo HP laptop with 16GB RAM had 75% RAM used at idle after a fresh boot with Outlook, Teams and all the copro shit running in the background. So the 8GB NEO CPU will spend its time swapping data from ram to disk versus the 16GB+ ones, given both being filled with corporate spyware and same heavy use cases.

Also it isn't 2-3x faster, stop with the made up nonsense please. Just checked and my 3 year old AMD laptop is on par with the NEO geekbench score I found online (slower in single core but faster in multi core), not 2-3x slower.

dude250711 2 hours ago|
Now just needs to have that pre-installed by Apple, and macOS somehow hidden during boot time.