Top
Best
New

Posted by medhir 1 hour ago

Your phone is an entire computer(medhir.com)
116 points | 107 comments
purplehat_ 15 minutes ago|
I really don't understand the argument here. That the product is locked down by design is a feature, not a limitation.

Yes, this has the side effect of making them more money and allowing a walled garden to form, but given that the vast majority of users wouldn't do anything different with their phones if a shell was present, this is in my opinion not that large of an effect.

The snide around "clicking on links is dangerous" and locking down the bootloader is unwarranted, because for most people a phone is not a toy (or at least, not just a toy) - it has their communications history, their bank information, their passwords, any many more. And it's really easy to steal people's phones on the subway. This isn't about freedom of computing, this is about the fact that an iPhone in BFU is nearly as secure as a GrapheneOS phone.

There are many problems with Apple software. It's buggy, uses proprietary formats that you can't export, and interoperable with open standards. It's bad, and is the primary reason why I won't buy another iPhone, but Macs have that same problem. On the other hand, being cryptographically locked-down is an optional feature. If you don't like it, buy a computer without that feature. It's harmful to us, to tinkerers and people who want to see how things work, but the average person does not care at all and just wants to be able to open LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs without having their 401k get drained.

Aurornis 2 minutes ago||
I still remember the era when jailbreaking Android and iPhones was gaining popularity among less technical people. It was eye opening to watch how many people I knew would search for a random web page and then unquestioningly follow instructions on the screen to install software from the first link they clicked.

All of this to get custom fonts in their messaging app or some other little feature they saw on someone’s phone.

I started getting a lot of requests for help from people who had broken key functions on their phones or even bricked them entirely.

Even today there’s a culture of downloading Android builds from long forum threads on XDA developers and other forums and hoping they’re not compromised.

mholt 1 minute ago|||
And yet, try getting a full backup of your Google phone onto your own computer. (Without rooting/wiping the whole thing.) Heck, try getting just your text messages off (without a separate app)!

You can't. (Last time I checked.) The backup is encrypted in the cloud, and the only way to download it is to restore it to a phone.

Whereas I can just plug in my iPhone and get a full backup, complete with sqlite manifest, completely accessible. Text messages, photo library, everything.

throwaway27448 12 minutes ago|||
I understood this stance more 10 years ago, but now we have many layers of fairly well documented exploit tactics and none of them rely on the app store. However forcing users to use an app store was supposed to benefit us has clearly failed.

And, somehow, the indignity of being forced into paying apple a 30% tax for a market they wholly own never comes up alongside other paternalistic arguments....

purplehat_ 1 minute ago||
Can you elaborate on "fairly well documented exploit tactics"? My impression is that most of these are either social engineering, for which we need to hire better designers, or complicated chains of hard-to-find primitives only accessible to state actors.

There's definitely problems but the solution isn't to make the iPhone a general purpose computer. We definitely need to defend the existence of general purpose computing at a time where regulation is likely to begin encroaching on it, but the promise of the App Store is "pay a 30% tax and any app you download here will be safe." In my mind, at least, that's the promise, and perhaps one solution to the situation would be to erect consequences to breaking that promise.

d--b 3 minutes ago||
It’s only about the right to use your device as you see fit.

It is kind of silly that people buy raspberry pis to run their NAS, while they trash ther infinitely more capable iphone every couple of years.

kumibrr 2 minutes ago||
Many people here says that it's locked up by design, and while I agree, we could have an alternative firmware (not iOS or even GUI) that gives full control and complete access through ssh and repurpose it as we want.

I have a pile of iphones without battery sitting in a drawer and It would be a really cheap way to run fun stuff.

The only thing that could be worrying is device theft, but a simple CLI tool for the initial device registration after firmware flash might do it.

jesperwe 12 minutes ago||
This is sooo true. I have multiple computing ideas that I want to do just for fun but I am not doing because each requires buying a mini-pc, sometimes with a screen too, and put Linux + my app on it.

At the same time I have multiple old phones laying around, Pixels, iPhones, Galaxy that are out of date, have cracked screens or worn out batteries.

Each one of these old phones have same or more computing power than a $300 mini-pc, but I can't use them because I can't just ssh into them and install an app...

Sad, really.

ricardojoaoreis 1 minute ago||
I'm using a Nexus 5 with postmarketOS as an SMS gateway connected to the internet! So glad old phones were a bit more open
tomComb 10 minutes ago|||
The pixels all ship with unlocked bootloaders.
droidjj 1 minute ago||
I recently turned my unused Google Pixel 8 into a server for my personal site and various side projects. It's super satisfying to spin things up in a couple hours, point a cloudflare tunnel at it, and share it with the world.
federiconafria 4 minutes ago||
Same, the computing capacity and redundancy you could achieve with your spare devices...
chmod775 1 hour ago||
There's nothing much special about phone silicon. They generally run a bit slower than their desktop/laptop counterparts because of power and heat limitations.

At the top end on a desktop power usage doubles for lower double-digit percentage gains. You can shave that off and not lose much. Laptops are a lot closer to phones than they are to desktops when it comes to power and thermal limitations*, so re-using a "phone" chip really isn't crazy.

* 100W power usage on a laptop is entering silly territory, but on a desktop that's the bottom of entry-level rigs.

lostlogin 23 minutes ago||
> Laptops are a lot closer to phones than they are to desktops

Introducing the MacBook Neo.

reactordev 25 minutes ago|||
And here I am with a laptop with a 450W brick next to it to make it function…
fragmede 57 minutes ago||
There is and there isn't. Your phone, almost certainly, with a shorter list of exceptions than not, has a locked bootloader and consequently cannot run unsigned software with full permissions without additional work. Sometimes that work is impossible to do. In terms of capabilities, sure, your phone is as capable, if not more capable than a desktop computer from a decade or two ago. The phone in my hand that I'm writing this from is 100 times more powerful than the computer I had as a kid. So that's an important point to make. However the specialness of phone silicon is the locked down bootloader and the downstream effects of that. You can point out exceptions where you can unlock the bootloader, but those are exceptions. The vast majority of phones you aren't going to get root on. So in that dimension, that's what's special about phone silicon. The signed chain-of-trust that is baked in and prevents you from running unsigned binaries with full permissions on phone silicon.
xyzzy_plugh 19 minutes ago||
You are conflating many things here. A locked bootloader does not imply you cannot run unsigned software in user space. There are also many phones that do allow you to unlock the bootloader. I have a drawer full of them.

Finally, the ability to allow you to unlock your phone bootloader or to run custom firmware has nothing to do with the silicon. It's a software choice. The trusted software could most certainly decide to disable these safeguards.

epistasis 43 minutes ago||
Apple's latest monitor is more powerful than the NEO, it has:

* A19 Pro CPU (the NEO only has the A18 Pro)

* 12GB of RAM (the NEO only has 8GB of RAM)

* 128GB of NAND storage for iOS (ok this is less than the NEO)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Studio_Display#Technical...

jsheard 13 minutes ago||
The Studio Display might be using up crap bins of the A19 Pro with a bunch of cores disabled, but... yeah. It's an absurd amount of horsepower for a monitor.
elAhmo 13 minutes ago||
You didn't mention the part that it costs five times as much.
wds 1 hour ago||
A few days ago I cracked the edge of my smartphone's screen at just the right spot to shut its display off entirely, though it still works. Using the USB-C dongle meant for my laptop, the phone pops into a desktop view which basically is the same experience as a Chromebook (for better or worse).

In the meantime before its repair, I shoved my SIM card into an old flipphone I had in the tech graveyard drawer. I've actually really liked the limited flipphone experience. It's a mental breath of fresh air to not have a time/focus black hole in my pocket at all times. It made me realize that I've had a pretty bad relationship with my smartphone in terms of how much time I wasted on it. I'm considering keeping the flipphone as my primary phone. Maybe smartphones do too much.

darenr 1 hour ago||
I use the Pixel, but the point is the same. Recently Google added the "Dex" like feature where I can plug in the phone to a monitor and use it as my "entire computer" - at first I was excited, I can go to a coffee shop and leave my laptop behind, but then I looked at getting a bluetooth keyboard, mouse, monitor - with battery, and it's now a worse experience. There are monitor/battery/trackpad combination products for this exact scenario but they are nowhere near the quality of just buying a Macbook - doubly so the Neo.

A laptop is more than the sum of its parts. Your phone overlaps with it on a technical level, but format is important.

rcarmo 3 minutes ago||
The fun thing for me is that we are now having the same argument about iPhones that we've always had about iPads.

For me, the iPad would have died if the Neo had a 12" screen. Only the iPad mini remains a useful form factor.

froobius 1 hour ago||
It's very clear that the consumer is getting a worse experience than what is technically possible. There is no good phone-slash-laptop, purely because it's less profitable than locking down the devices and selling them separately.
fsflover 1 hour ago|
> There is no good phone-slash-laptop

There is: https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-year-of-librem-5-convergence/

FpUser 15 minutes ago||
Looking at the price vs what's inside - sorry but I'll pass.
fixxation92 11 minutes ago|
Why not just get a Linux phone running Ubuntu Touch or postmarketOS. You'd have full root access, sideloading etc and none of that corporate control, likely for half the price of an iPHone. Sure you'd lose all the Apple look/feel but at least you can do what you want with the phone.
kumibrr 7 minutes ago|
I think the author goes more towards repurposing the device after its EoL.
More comments...