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Posted by wwarren 3 days ago

Write up of my homebrew CPU build(willwarren.com)
211 points | 40 commentspage 2
komali2 12 hours ago|
> It’s a standalone tool that lives outside the computer. I put the EEPROM into the socket, and connect via serial to my laptop to upload the binary files.

Huh, I guess I never really thought about it, but how did they program the first CPUs? Like how did they overcome the chicken/egg situation?

numpad0 7 hours ago||
IIUC, that's what sci-fi LED panels of really old computers were. They showed all the internal statuses of the CPU as well as CPU-RAM bus. And the toggle switches allowed individual bit overrides.

The operator sets a CPU RESET switch to RESET, then powers on the machine, and start toggling RAM address and data switches, like HHLL HLLH HHHL LLLL. The operator then press and release the STEP push switch. The address 0b 1100 1001 is now set to 0b 1110 0000. This is repeated until the desired program or a bootloader is all complete. The operator finally sets CPU RESET to Normal, and CLOCK dial to RUN.

The CPU exits reset state, initializes program counter with reset vector, e.g. 0b1000, and start executing instruction at PC++. 1000, 1001, 1010, so on. Then oh no, the EXCEPTION indicator comes on, the LED shows 0b 1110 0000. That's divide r0 by 0, etc.

They didn't actually spend every half a day toggling those switches. They loaded their equivalents of bare minimum BIOS recovery code, then the rest wad loaded from magnetic or mechanical tapes. Only when computers were booted up blank slate or crashed and in need of debugging, the users resorted to that interface.

If they had the CPU-RAM main bus split into ROM and RAM address ranges in such ways that setting address to reset vector will yield the first byte of a BIOS program lithographically etched into the ROM chip, then simply powering on the machine will do the same thing as loading the BIOS manually.

There were also things like magnetic core memories. They didn't require lithography to fabricate, and there were both ROM and RAM kinds of those.

Joker_vD 1 hour ago|||
Of course, if you have sufficiently simple input devices that could do DMA, then you can do something e.g. IBM 1401 did:

    When the LOAD button on the 1402 Card Read-Punch is pressed, a
    card is read into memory locations 001–080, a word mark is set
    in location 001 to indicate that it is an executable instruction,
    the word marks in locations 002-080 (if any) are cleared, and
    execution starts with the instruction at location 001. [...] To
    read subsequent cards, an explicit Read command (opcode 1) must
    be executed as the last instruction on every card to get the new
    card's contents into locations 001–080.
I imagine the additional wiring on that LOAD button must have been pretty small: the READ functionality already exists in the 1402 device, it also has an output signal that tells when the read is finished (so the 1401 Processing Unit knows when the Read command is done), so you just need to tie that signal into resetting the PC to 1 and then starting the clock.
fc417fc802 7 hours ago|||
The pictures of workers weaving a program into core rope memory is peak steampunk vibes.
thenthenthen 4 hours ago||
Weaving and computing are closely intertwined
moring 12 hours ago|||
Actual application code was hardwired, entered manually with switches and lights, or with punch cards. Later, when ICs were sufficiently advanced, mask-programmed ROMs/PLAs.
monocasa 5 hours ago||
Or diode matrix ROMs were pretty popular as well.

Electrically, essentially what happens in most mask ROMs, but as a circuit board that allowed you to solder in a diode or not in each bit location in order to specify a 1 or a 0.

cdcarter 3 hours ago||
That would be the "hardwired" option.
monocasa 55 minutes ago||
Eh, it was considered user programmable and generally came blank from the vendor.
ninalanyon 8 hours ago|||
When I was building embedded controllers with 6502 processors in the 1970s and 1980s we used UV erasable EPROMS and a programmer (my own design) with a ZIF socket built on an expansion board in an Apple ][. The prototype board also had a ZIF socket but the production boards would have ordinary DIL sockets, our production volume was too low to warrant ordering actual ROMS so we used the UV erasable ones and put a metallised sticker over the window.

All programming was done on the Apple in 6502 assembler. It took 45 minutes to assemble an 8kB rom image. This meant that you took extreme care to think about what the code was doing as assembling a new image was often the most time consuming part of the Edit-Assemble-Test loop.

wwarren 3 hours ago|||
For the microcode ROMs they can just be “hardwired” with a zillion simpler gates. This has the added benefit of supporting way higher clock speed. For my planned program ROM you would either have to input manually like the first computers, or use other things like punch cards or your computer would be again “hardwired” to load programs from some other media
fc417fc802 10 hours ago|||
He says that's for microcode ROMs though? As opposed to a user program written in machine code that you would use the CPU to execute. I don't believe ancient CPUs had microcode. Everything was implemented in hardware.
jacquesm 9 hours ago|||
What you believe doesn't really matter.

Plenty of 'ancient' CPUs had microcode.

68K, System 360, Sperry 1100, and even the 'ACE' to name the great grand daddy of them all had microcode.

Technically the 6502 and the 6800/09 did not, they used a dedicated decoder that was closer to a statemachine than microcode, even though both were implemented in hardware.

None of the smaller CPUs had 'loadable' microcode, but plenty of the larger ones did.

mrgaro 9 hours ago||||
CPU's microcode can be surprisingly simple: The CPU has bunch of internal signals, which activates certain parts of the CPU and the logic when to turn each signal on comes from reading bunch of input signals. The microcode can be just a memory where the input signals are the memory address and the output is the control signals.
fc417fc802 6 hours ago||
It's just that at some point when it's all physically wired up in hardware as opposed to being stored in some form of memory I have difficulty thinking of it as code or a program. By the time you're rearranging wires to enter a "program" aren't you actually refactoring the CPU itself?

Anyway I feel like the answer to the chicken and egg problem originally posed is to point out that things used to be different. Tools such as text editors and compilers are merely modern syntactic sugar.

ninalanyon 8 hours ago|||
Even Babbage's Analytical Engine had microcode.
fc417fc802 7 hours ago||
Would you care to elaborate? That sounds both unlikely (but I assume I'm just naive) and also interesting.
ninalanyon 34 minutes ago||
Part of the machinery is a cylinder that orchestrates various very low level operations this means that the Jacquard cards can specify a higher level operation. Exactly how sophisticated it is, or is supposed to be, I'm not sure.

And now that you've challenged me I can't remember where I saw this piece of information. Time for a quick web search.

Found something, I don't think this is where i saw it first but it will do:

"Later drawings (1858) depict a regularised grid layout.[18][19] Like the central processing unit (CPU) in a modern computer, the mill would rely upon its own internal procedures, roughly equivalent to microcode in modern CPUs, to be stored in the form of pegs inserted into rotating drums called "barrels", to carry out some of the more complex instructions the user's program might specify.[7]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_engine

b00ty4breakfast 12 hours ago|||
I'm going off memory (of a book, not that I was alive in the 40s, ha) so grain of salt etc but I believe the very earliest (edit: electronic, digital) computers were literally rewired every time they need to be re-programmed.
trq01758 12 hours ago||
Yes, check out this https://computerhistory.org/blog/programming-the-eniac-an-ex...
jacquesm 12 hours ago|||
Plugboards! Think telephone exchange but used as a ROM.
imtringued 8 hours ago||
Here is a blog post describing how to do it with a PDP8. Note: he used an assembler but in those days you had do translate to machine code by hand.

https://raymii.org/s/articles/Toggling_in_a_simple_program_o...

harmf 11 hours ago||
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seedpi 10 hours ago|
[flagged]
rllj 9 hours ago|
You run on a Cortex-A72, because you're a bot! What a funny way to reveal oneself.