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Posted by crtasm 6 hours ago

Microsoft's 'unhackable' Xbox One has been hacked by 'Bliss'(www.tomshardware.com)
339 points | 146 commentspage 2
mike_hearn 3 hours ago|
Amazing talk. Here's a quick writeup if you don't want to watch the full hour or don't have enough hardware knowledge to follow what Markus is talking about, as he goes very fast, in some cases too fast to even let you read the text on his slides. It's mandatory to use the pause key to understand the full details even if you have a deep understanding of every relevant technology, of which he explains none.

The Xbox uses a very advanced variant of the same technologies that also exist on smartphones, tablets and Secure Boot enabled PCs. When fully operational the Xbox security system prevents any unsigned code from running, keeps all code encrypted, proves to remote servers (Xbox Live) that it's a genuine device running in a secure state, and on this base you can build strong anti-piracy checks and block cheating.

The Xbox has several processors and what follows applies to the Platform Security Processor. When a computer starts up (any computer), the CPU begins execution in a state in which basically nothing works, including external communication and even RAM. Executions starts at a 'reset vector' mapped to a boot ROM i.e. the bytes are hard-wired into the silicon itself and can't be changed. The boot ROM then executes instructions to progressively enable more and more hardware, including things like activating RAM. Until that point the whole CPU executes out of its cache lines and can't use more memory than exists on-die.

Getting to the state where the Xbox can achieve all its security goals thus requires it to boot through a series of chained steps which incrementally bring the hardware online, and each step must verify the integrity of the next. The boot ROM is only 19kb of code and a few more kb of data, and can't do much beyond just activating RAM, the memory mapping unit (called MPU on the Xbox), and reading some more code out of writeable flash RAM. The code it reads from flash RAM is the second stage bootloader where much more work gets done, but from this second stage on it can be patched remotely by Microsoft. So if bugs are found there or in any later stage, it hardly matters because MS can issue a software update and detect remotely on Xbox Live servers if that upgrade was applied, so kicking out cheaters and pirates. The second stage boot loader in turn loads more code from disk, signature checks and decrypts it, sets up lots of software security schemes like hypervisors and so on, all the way up to the OS and the games.

Therefore to break Xbox security permanently you have to attack the boot ROM, because that's the only part that can't be changed via a software update. It's the keys to the kingdom and this is what Markus attacked. Attacking the boot ROM is very, very hard. The Xbox team were highly competent:

• Normally the bringup code would be written by the CPU or BIOS vendors but MS wrote it all in house themselves from scratch.

• The code isn't public and has never leaked. To obtain it, someone had to decode it visually by looking at the chip under a scanning electron microscope and map the atomic pictures to bits and then to bytes.

• Having the code barely helps because there are no bugs in it whatsoever.

So, the only way to manipulate it is to actually screw with the internals of the CPU itself by "glitching", meaning tampering with the power supply to the chip at exactly the right moment to corrupt the state of the internal electronics. Glitching a processor has semi-random effects and you don't control what happens exactly, but sometimes you can get lucky and the CPU will skip instructions. By creating a device that reboots the machine over and over again, glitching each time, you can wait until one of those attempts gets lucky and makes a tiny mistake in the execution process.

Glitching attacks predate the Xbox and were mostly used on smartcards until the Xbox 360, which was successfully attacked this way. So Microsoft knew all about them and added many mitigations, beyond "just" writing bug free code:

1. The boot ROM is full of randomized loops that do nothing but which are designed to make it hard to know where in the program the CPU has got to. Glitching requires near perfect timing and this makes it harder.

2. They hardware-disabled the usual status readouts that can be used to know where the program got up to and debug the boot process.

3. They hash-chain execution to catch cases where steps were skipped, even though that's impossible according to program logic.

4. They effectively use a little 'kernel' and run parts of the boot sequence as 'user mode' programs, so that if sensitive parts of the code are glitched they are limited in how badly they can tamper with the boot process.

And apparently there are even more mitigations added post-2013. Markus managed to bypass these by chaining two glitch attacks together, one which skipped past the code that turned on the MMU, which made it possible to break out of one of the the usermode 'processes' (not really a process) and into the 'kernel', and one which then was able to corrupt the CPU state during a memcpy operation, allowing him to take control of the CPU as it was copying the next stage from flash RAM.

If you can take control of the boot ROM execution then you can proceed to decrypt the next stage, skip the signature checks and from there do whatever you want in ways that can't be detected remotely - however, the fact that you're using a 2013 Phat device still can be.

mysteria 1 hour ago||
Thanks for this writeup as I haven't had time to review the video yet :)

So, the only way to manipulate it is to actually screw with the internals of the CPU itself by "glitching", meaning tampering with the power supply to the chip at exactly the right moment to corrupt the state of the internal electronics. Glitching a processor has semi-random effects and you don't control what happens exactly, but sometimes you can get lucky and the CPU will skip instructions. By creating a device that reboots the machine over and over again, glitching each time, you can wait until one of those attempts gets lucky and makes a tiny mistake in the execution process.

Considering that the PSP is a small ARM processor that presumably takes up little die space, would it make sense for it to them employ TMR with three units in lockstep to detect these glitches? I really doubt that power supply tampering would cause the exact same effect in all three processors (especially if there are differences in their power circuitry to make this harder) and any disrepancies would be caught by the system.

Retr0id 1 hour ago||
The Nintendo switch 2 uses DCLS (Dual-core lockstep) in the BPMP and PSC (PSC is PSP-like but RISC-V). So yes, it helps - I'm unsure if/where msft uses it on their products.
mysteria 1 hour ago||
DCLS actually makes sense for this scenario as the fault tolerance gained from having three processors isn't needed here. The system can halt when there's a mismatch, it doesn't have to perform a vote and continue running if 2 of 3 are getting the same result.

Also I just thought of this but it should be possible to design a chip where the second processor runs a couple cycles behind the first one, with all the inputs and outputs stashed in fifos. This would basically make any power glitches affect the two CPUs differently and any disrepancies would be easily detected.

Retr0id 2 hours ago|||
> It's mandatory to use the pause key to understand the full details

I was going to say I disagreed but the rest of your comment reminded me that I've accumulated a lot of domain-specific knowledge.

mike_hearn 1 hour ago||
What I meant is that at points he skips past slides so quick even very fast readers can't absorb every bullet point. I read at ~2-3x the average speed, have lots of domain knowledge and couldn't read fast enough to get every word on every slide. So the pause key is very useful for that even if you know what's coming.
Retr0id 52 minutes ago||
I read at Normal speed but I didn't feel that way when watching. I believe you though, I was just having an XKCD 2501 moment.

https://xkcd.com/2501/

nerdsniper 3 hours ago||
Thank you, sincerely. My main question now is, what degree of repeatability has Markus achieved so far?
mike_hearn 3 hours ago||
On Phat consoles? You could turn it into a modchip, if for some reason you wanted to. It'd be repeatable on every boot but might take a while.

The hard work comes after this though. There are lots of software level mitigations MS could use to keep the old devices usable with Xbox Live if they really wanted to. Just because you can boot anything you want doesn't mean you can't be detected remotely, it just makes it harder for MS to do so reliably. You'd be in a constant game of catch-up.

gradientsrneat 2 hours ago||
Could this technique be used to reverse-engineer end-of-life Nvidia GPUs to improve Noveau on them?
stinmpy 5 hours ago||
Marcus used to work for Microsoft, in the MSRC. I wonder if he used insider knowledge for this hack.
Scaevolus 4 hours ago|
Microsoft released a video that covers effectively all of the Xbox One security system, and it's referred to extensively in the talk. The specific methods of glitching don't require any insider knowledge.
ZiiS 4 hours ago||
They also told everyone they added more anti glitching to later hardware revisions; which by the process of elimination tells everyone they thought this was possible. The whole initiative was a success when it gave them a year; an unqualified triumph when it gave them the whole generation; they really are not going to be to sad after 12 years.
mike_hearn 3 hours ago||
Right, as Markus says - even gods can bleed. And he's right: Tony Chen's team did god-level work with the Xbox One security system, so what must have followed in the Xbox Series S is truly unknowable. I don't think there's even a tech talk on it. This talk is probably the most elite hacking talk I've ever watched. Everyone who worked on this stuff at MS can and obviously should be very proud of what it took - especially as this probably won't have any commercial impact on Xbox game devs or multiplayers.
lionkor 4 hours ago||
Is there any better format article or writeup? I couldn't find anything.
charcircuit 5 hours ago||
It wasn't unhackable and decrypted versions of games already have been dumped. There was even a public exploit published years ago.

https://github.com/exploits-forsale/collateral-damage

What's new here is that this compromises the entire system security giving access to the highest privilege level.

landr0id 4 hours ago||
Thanks for the mention! I helped with the collateral damage exploit (wrote the PE loader).

I didn't ask but Emma -- who wrote the kernel-mode exploit -- and I would probably agree that Collat is not really what we would consider a proper hack of the console since it didn't compromise HostOS. Neither of us really expected game plaintext to be accessible from SRA mode though.

landr0id 2 hours ago||
And the plaintext stuff by the way was a great effort by some other folks running https://xboxoneresearch.github.io/

I think it was tuxuser, Torus, and Billy(?) who accomplished that. Hopefully not forgetting anyone critical.

hnaccounttw99 44 minutes ago||
It’s worth noting that the person responding to you - landr0id - is a former criminal hacker who only narrowly avoided going to prison for his attacks on Microsoft/game developers during the life span of the Xbox 360, which is more than I can say for many of his friends - they were less fortunate. His behavior included hacking into developers networks to steal unreleased games and source code as well as attacks on the Xbox Live service, which he oddly (and proudly) writes about on his blog. He was involved in attacks on the 360 platform security, but the goal was always piracy - not furthering security. He was around things that were much more impactful - like the entire Dylan Wheeler saga - the two of them knew each other and traveled in the same circles. So Lander’s behavior was really bad, but his friends did much worse, so they were the ones who went down.

People in the know find it pretty offensive for Lander to continue to attack these systems or do so much as speak to anyone who is. They should work on remorse and seek forgiveness rather than repeating a variant of the same behavior that defined their past. Maybe learn from the other person involved who avoided ‘issues’ and went to the other side of this exact security equation.

I guess harassing War Thunder players is not compatible with that more respectable lifestyle or something.

I also enjoy their earlier HN posts. Especially the one about how the initial system compromise happened, where they pretend to speculate about how the HV dump happened/how it could have happened/how important it was when they know full well exactly who obtained and sold the internal prototype hardware that was used to extract that plain text.

They aren’t responsible for that, they weren’t involved in that, but they know.

jvillegasd 3 hours ago||
Don't ever call a thing "unhackable", because every single human creation is imperfect
aservus 3 hours ago||
xbox is always trying to limit the users, when a person buys something, he clearly gets the ownership of the thing yet companies nowadays are trying really hard to sell some subscription while giving the illusion that the owner of the product is in control all the while keeping him in control. is there anyone else who feels the same way?
everyone 3 hours ago||
It had those e-fuses in it right? *Seriously* it should be illegal to sell anything with those.
Gigachad 2 minutes ago||
Basically all computers use efuses, otherwise it would be possible to rollback the firmware to a previous, insecure version.

For something like a game console, that’s annoying, for a phone or laptop, that’s highly desirable if something like a TPM bug is fixed, without efuses the system would forever be vulnerable.

megous 1 hour ago||
E-fuses are just write once memory with limited reads ability 10e6-10e7 read cycles after which it becomes unreliable.

Secure boot that can't be controlled by the user should be illegal, though. You should get some secret code along with a device, that allows you as the buyer to tamper with it. So much hardware out there can just serve as something else, or can be supported by people on a voluntary basis, sans the completely arbitrary lockdown of ability to install your own code to the device.

Simulacra 5 hours ago||
One should never call something "unhackable" ...
Arainach 5 hours ago||
Given that it held up against 13 years of dedicated efforts by people with physical access to the device, many years after its successor was launched, it seems merited in this case.

This talk about some of what went into it is fascinating: https://youtu.be/quLa6kzzra0

devmor 5 hours ago|||
"Extremely hard to hack" or "Hackable only after it's retired" don't exactly roll off the tongue, but they are not synonymous with "Unhackable".

In many cases the truth is simply that its not worth the time/effort to hack it, so only the most dedicated perverts(with a positive connotation) keep trying.

WJW 5 hours ago|||
It literally got hacked, that's what the article is about. It is NOT unhackable.
ralfd 5 hours ago|||
Microsoft stopped manufacturing in 2020. It was not hacked in its lifetime.
lokar 4 hours ago||
I agree, but also find it funny that by that standard the DRM in the original Google video streaming product was not hacked before the service was shutdown, after about 2 years :)
leoc 3 hours ago||
And to think that sometimes people doubt the wisdom of Google’s product-lifecycle decisions!
max-m 4 hours ago||||
To the community it was unhackable, until very recently. It's security measures held up so long that it appeared to be unshakable. There were no obvious flaws. In hindsight it was hackable, but keep in mind how long it took. This console has long been obsoleted.
Brian_K_White 4 hours ago|||
It was unhackable while it mattered. It was hacked 5 years after it no longer mattered. And all but the effectively beta release remain unhacked even now.
close04 5 hours ago|||
In the very strict interpretation probably nothing is unhackable, just not hacked yet. But one should also be pragmatic about what "unhackable" means in context. Without the power of hindsight, a consumer device that stayed unhacked for ~13 years can be reasonably called unhackable during this time.
replooda 4 hours ago|||
We don't need to contribute to word inflation. There's "really hard," there's "nearly impossible," there's even "impossible – as far as we know." I don't think it shows a lack of pragmatism to assume a technological claim, made by a technology company, should't be taken at face value. On the contrary, I'd advise more pragmatism to anyone failing to disregard an "unhackable" claim made by Microsoft specially even after fixnum years without known exploits.
mikkupikku 4 hours ago|||
I think it's like calling a ship "unsinkable". Yes, you engineered it to not sink, in accordance with strict maritime standards no doubt, but just don't call it unsinkable. If you call it unsinkable you're just begging for a century of snickering at your hubris.
applfanboysbgon 4 hours ago||
It has no relation to hubris whatsoever if the "unhackable" label is not something self-proclaimed at launch but something descriptively applied by other people who were unable to hack it. Nobody would have snickered if the Titanic were described as unsinkable by people who had been trying to sink it for 10 years.
inetknght 4 hours ago||
> Nobody would have snickered if the Titanic were described as unsinkable by people who had been trying to sink it for 10 years.

Pedantic: I'm sure somebody would have snickered about "unsinkable" if the Titanic sank after 10 years. Pragmatic: if the "unsinkable" Titanic lasted 10 years (or at least to profitability) before being sunk by people intending to sink it, that might certainly count as being "unsinkable" for the time it hadn't sunk.

Hubris: Titanic was claimed to be unsinkable before it was launched.

joe_mamba 5 hours ago||
I wish people would take statements in relative terms along with the whole context before attempting to refute them with a quick gotcha in absolute terms.

Obviously nothing is ever unhackable, not even Fort Knox, given infinite time and resources, and Microsoft never made such claims, this is just media editorializing for clicks and HN eating the bait, but Xbox One was definitely the most unhackable console of its generation. Case in point, it took 13 years of constant community effort to hack a 499$ consumer device from 2013. PS4 and iPhones of 2013 have also been jailbroken long ago.

Therefore, even the click-bait statement with context in relative terms is 100% correct, it truly was unhackable during the time it was sold and relative to its peers of the time.

scottyah 4 hours ago|||
This goes against information theory as a whole, and the point of words. How are you going to convey all this extra context to people who don't follow the space, and what word(s) do we use for something that is actually unhackable?

Literally unhackable? XD

joe_mamba 3 hours ago||
Firstly, who made the claim that it was guaranteed to be "unhackable"? Was it Microsoft themselves when they sold it, or slop journalists looking to create false contrarianism in order to legitimize their own PoV and drive traffic to their articles? If it's the latter the we're just wasting our breath ehre over made up BS.

Secondly, this is HN, not some generic town corner shop newspaper. It's assumed the readers who come here often and comment with no green profiles, have at least some basic technical know-how that nothing is ever unbackable, least of all a console from 2103, and therefore process information through that context lens, instead of feigning complete ignorance and arguing from the false pretext they gobbled up from editorialized titles created by slop journalists.

devmor 4 hours ago|||
> Case in point, it took 13 years of constant community effort to hack it.

Can you attempt to quantify this effort in comparison to other game consoles? I'm not very familiar with the Xbox scene, but I would assume that there was a lot less drive to achieve this given that Xbox has never really had many big exclusive titles and remains the least popular major console (with an abysmally tiny market presence outside of the US).

As an aside, I wonder if Microsoft's extra effort into securing the platform comes from their tighter partnership with media distributors/streaming platforms and their off-and-on demonstrated desire to position the Xbox as a home media center more than just a gaming console.

deadbeef7f 4 hours ago|||
> Can you attempt to quantify this effort in comparison to other game consoles?

The person who hacked the original Xbox wrote a book on the topic, which they've since made free: https://bunniefoo.com/nostarch/HackingTheXbox_Free.pdf

debugnik 4 hours ago||||
I too forget sometimes that Wii U existed.
joe_mamba 4 hours ago|||
>and remains the least popular major console (with an abysmally tiny market presence outside of the US).

TF are you on about? The xbox one of 2013(competitor of the PS4 who got hacked long before) had a ~46% market share in the US and ~35% globally. Hardly insignificant. And any Microsoft Product, even those with much lower market share, attracts significant attention from hackers since it's worth a lot in street-cred, plus the case of reusing cheap consoles as general PCs for compute since HW used to be subsidized. And of course for piracy, game preservation and homebrew reasons.

I again tap the sign of my previous comment, of uring people to stop jumping the gun to talk out of their ass, without knowing and considering the full context.

au8er 4 hours ago|
This just again shows that given enough time skill, and resources, any security is pointless if the attacker has physical access to the device.
Waterluvian 4 hours ago||
I think this might be a good example of the fundamental misunderstanding of what "security" even is. It is never a binary state. Never was. And I think a lot of people don't really grok that and think that if a security block can be overcome in some manner then the thing is not secure.

Eventually Fort Knox will succumb to the unrelenting arrow of time and some future visitors will simply step over the crumbling wall and into the supposedly "secure" area.

tosti 3 hours ago||
I see security as a stopgap measure when there's no peace. The best "security" is not to need any in the first place.
john_strinlai 4 hours ago|||
i find this statement is often used as an excuse to not think about security at all. which is probably not what you intended here (i hope, although you did say "pointless"...), but some people parrot it for that purpose.

a) this was a security win. millions and millions of people had physical access to the device for over a decade

b) as others have said, security is not all-or-nothing. the xbox one is extremely secure, despite not being perfectly secure.

c) just because something eventually gets hacked does not mean security was pointless. delaying access is a perfectly reasonable security goal. delaying access until the product is retired and the successor is already out on the market is a huge win.

jamesgeck0 4 hours ago|||
One of the DRM circumvention methods for the Xbox 360 involved precision drilling a specific depth into one of the chips on the board. Microsoft was very aware of the nature of physical access while designing this, haha.
echelon_musk 3 hours ago||
I had many Xbox 360s with flashed DVD drive firmware back in the day. But as I never owned a slim console I had no idea the drill/Kamikaze hack was a thing until now.
rangestransform 2 hours ago|||
In the talk that the security guy gave, he said it just had to cost more than 10 games for a user to enable piracy
recursive 4 hours ago|||
This seems like an unqualified win for the security measure. The future value of Xbox One DRM is probably close to zero. They already got what they wanted out of it.
leoc 3 hours ago||
At this point the blip of free media coverage possibly makes this a net positive for XBox.
cocoto 4 hours ago|||
I can give you a piece of paper with a one time pad encoded secret, where the one time is physically destroyed. You can take all the time you want but you will not crack anything…
TobTobXX 3 hours ago||
You don't need to attack the math, if you can attack the sender or thr receiver ['s hardware].
wat10000 4 hours ago|||
I’m pretty skeptical of that lesson. This took 13 years and it’s cheap mass-market hardware.
jamesnorden 3 hours ago|||
Better stop locking your doors, then.
babypuncher 3 hours ago|||
'pointless' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

This console went completely unhacked for 12 years, with this coming a solid 4 years after the hardware was discontinued. They kept piracy off the console for its whole lifespan, which was the entire point of these security measures. This is a massive success for the Xbox security team.

dist-epoch 4 hours ago||
You do have a credit card, right?