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Posted by nxobject 5 hours ago

Oregon school cell phone ban: 'Engaged students, joyful teachers'(portlandtribune.com)
234 points | 177 commentspage 2
wjholden 5 hours ago|
For what it's worth — my last workplace did not allow cell phones in the building and I learned to love it. When people attended meetings, we all made eye contact and talked about the task at hand. Nobody ever got distracted by notifications or tuned out with boredom. And since we all had traditional telephones at our desks, someone would come get you if your family was calling with for an urgent crisis. I miss it.

My kids' school banned phones during the school day. The principal promised that the office would relay any messages if parents call, and they do. I would be interested to see if there are already statistics showing academic success. That is, are grades and test scores affected by phone bans? The article talks about graduation rates, but doesn't directly address grades and scores.

moduspol 4 hours ago|
> I would be interested to see if there are already statistics showing academic success.

It's fair to expect that data, though honestly at this point, it might also be reasonable to expect data that increased screens IMPROVE the outcomes before allowing or issuing them.

mattbaker 4 hours ago||
It’s the right idea but it also puts the burden of enforcement on teachers that are already over extended, especially in schools where behavioral challenges are more prevalent. Great in a scenario where students are compliant, and a nightmare in environments where they’re not.

I don’t have a solution to that problem, but I also think it’s important to acknowledge it’s not all sunshine and roses.

I’m saying this as a person with close friends in Oregon school systems, based on the experiences they’ve shared with me.

Aurornis 4 hours ago|
> It’s the right idea but it also puts the burden of enforcement on teachers

As opposed to what? Enforcing rules of the classroom is part of the teacher's job.

I don't understand this objection. What's the alternative? Just let the classroom be a free for all because we don't want to burden teachers enforcing rules? Put a separate security officer in the classroom?

Enforcement becomes easier, not harder, when the rules are uniformly applied everywhere and without exception. There's no gray area and less temptation to bring the phone out because they know they'll lose it wherever they use it, even if it's in the hallways.

briffle 3 hours ago||
its a blanket rule, which has almost no exceptions. So there are some silly parts. One of my kids is in band and the school uses YONDER pouches. They have had to dig out some really, really old analog tuners to use. They have a fraction of the capability of a $4 IOS app, but the kids are supposed to keep their phones in a special sleeve with no exceptions... (so many kids break that rule, or throw an old dummy phone in the pouch)
SoftTalker 3 hours ago||
Tuners?

We had the oboe tune from a tuning fork, then the rest of the band tunes off of that. Or everyone tunes from a piano.

xjlin0 2 hours ago|||
Tuning by ears is an important skill for musicians, learning that is beneficial. For example, you cannot rely on apps to tune your signing voice during performance.
Ylpertnodi 1 hour ago||
Pianists are musicians that don't tune their instruments. People that use computers, too.

A whole band tuning by ear? Ouch!

50208 3 hours ago||
Good ... do it the old way ... I support the blanket ban, wish it would go further. It's a good start.
mmaunder 5 hours ago||
Given the free market nature of cellphones, where vendors and companies have unfettered access to monetize users, having cellphones in school is akin to making school children line up and listen to sales pitches from companies around the world for several hours a day, instead of focusing on education.
jmward01 4 hours ago||
I think this is likely a good concept for schools, but I want to see the data and not opinions. Lack of evidence based policy is what got us here, we should at some point start using evidence based policy to get us out of it.
mrinterweb 4 hours ago|
There are many sources for data on before and after school cell phone bans. Oregon is far from the first to implement this. 35 US states have some form of school cell phone ban, and I believe the UK is doing a nation-wide ban. There is a good amount of supporting data measuring results on this topic.
cmxch 3 hours ago||
Any data that discusses the effects of jurisdictions that still have refused to pass or enact such provisions?
dkhenry 2 hours ago||
Just wait until you find out the benefits of taking them away from kids altogether! Phones are a mental health hazard for children, there is no benefit for them having a phone. The only downside is they feel left out when their friends only want to sit around and scroll TikTok, and can't manage to have any in person interactions without their face in a screen.

None of my children have phones, and when they do get one, it will be when they are driving and will be a dumb phone for sending text messages and making calls.

nabbed 5 hours ago||
I would love it if my laptop had a "study mode" for when I am trying to debug something or learn something new using my laptop. Some of us have less than stellar self-control, so a study mode which requires a multi-step rigamarole to shut off might prevent me from casually checking my email or a news website when I am supposed to be learning a new data structure or figuring out a data corruption bug. I have no idea how it would work in real life: I need access to the internet to lookup API documentation, download libraries, and read online books, but I imagine something could be worked out.

(This article mentions that not only are cell phones banned at the featured school, but these kids have hobbled laptops that supposedly help them focus on school work, although the imperfect nature of the hobbling has unintended consequences).

rd 4 hours ago||
A combination of https://selfcontrolapp.com/ and Hammerspoon automation and you can lock yourself out of pretty much everything.
overvale 4 hours ago|||
I managed to build myself exactly this with Claude's help. There are 3 levels of protection.

1. I use an app called SelfControl, which blocks websites temporarily.

2. I have a script which watches `/etc/hosts` with launchd and reverts it to a version pulled from a server if the file changes. This blocks websites I never want to go to.

3. I setup a 'focus mode' with hammerspoon prevents me from launching certain apps, and makes me wait 30 seconds and type a string of text when I want to switch it off.

Yes, all of these things can be disabled when I want to, but the point is that they all add some fiction and give me a chance the reconsider the distracting action I was about to take.

I've been doing it for about 2 weeks, so far it's working pretty well!

DenisM 4 hours ago|||
Create a separate Mac / Windows non-admin account just for coding? I’m sure there are parental control measures for either platform. As time goes you can update the deny list of web sites.

Another thing that helps is recording your screen for the whole day. Once you start doing review in the evening it will create back-pressure on the monkey brain that jumps to distractions.

Yet another thing is to setup a separate computer. You can browse crapnet as long as you want, but you have to walk to another desk. The back pressure is subtle but has long-term effect and requires very kittke will power.

nabbed 3 hours ago||
>Create a separate Mac / Windows non-admin account just for coding?

Yes, I got as far as creating a separate account on my MBP a few years ago and I do programming and open source stuff with that account. And it has helped quite a bit! Although it's not perfect (case in point, I am here on HN right now).

corporate_pie 4 hours ago||
Here is how it would work in real life:

The laptop would come with a study mode button.

You would push it and turn off distractions.

Then 5 minutes later you would disable it just to send a chat.

Then since it was off, you'd just quickly check TikTok.

Then while you're at it, it just a quick break, you'd pop over to Twitch.

3 hours later...

If you can't teach yourself restraint, a button won't help.

alexfoo 4 hours ago|||
That’s a very simplistic view.

Granted it won’t work for 100% of people but I’m sure it would work for lots of people.

Something as simple as a button you have to press to disable it is often enough of a barrier to prevent people from doing that as it makes the context switch from work to non-work more obvious than simply alt-tabbing to a different browser window.

kibwen 4 hours ago|||
Slowing down the dopamine feedback loop works. Many impulses that lead to distraction are automatic, not conscious. Ever closed a Hacker News tab just for your fingers to immediately re-type the URL into the bar and hit enter? There are browser extensions that delay loading pages on a given site for a number of seconds, to cut off that sort of automatic behavior, and they work as long as the delay to load the site is less than the time and effort it takes to open up your addons manager and disable the addon.
reedf1 5 hours ago||
My understanding is that these are already banned in most schools and the practical difference between enforcing this at a state or national basis is basically nonexistent vs simple local enforcement.
germinalphrase 5 hours ago||
"Banned" is only meaningful if there are consequences for defying the ban. My experience as a high school English teacher in a handful of schools across several states was that admin is, generally, unwilling to implement a hard ban on smartphones because a significant portion of parents would vocally object (to put it mildly).

Pushing the ban to the state level acknowledges the broad inability of district level leadership to self-police these problems.

rootusrootus 5 hours ago|||
If anything I suspect it helps reduce the adversarial relationship between local schools and their parents. "State law, not our policy, sorry." Sounds childish, but hey, if parenting has taught me anything it is that plenty of people never outgrow childish behavior.
eru 5 hours ago||
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity

Any ban above school level is silly.

superkuh 5 hours ago||
It's crazy to me that cell phones, and especially smart phones, were ever allowed in the classroom during class.
coffeefirst 5 hours ago||
I suspect it was sneaky.

The old Nokia in school wasn't a problem. You get in trouble for playing snake. The iphone 1 wasn't really a problem. There weren't that many, and it served as a calendar.

But year after year, release after release, the industry deliberately loaded more and more addictive machinery, pushed more and more boundaries, until it's beyond unacceptable.

As an aside, it's amazing how hard it is to turn the modern phone into a no-nonsense tool, and I'm an adult with self-control, a deep understanding of dark patterns, and a fully-functioning brain after 3 cups of coffee.

svachalek 5 hours ago|||
Completely. I'm a software engineer that has a better shot at this than just about anybody, and I have no idea how to give a child a phone that's not just digital crack. If you think ScreenTime etc will do the job you probably have no idea what's actually happening on your child's phone.
eloisant 3 hours ago||
You can buy a dumbphone. For example a Nokia 3210 4G.
eloisant 3 hours ago|||
Interestingly dumb phones are making a comeback.

They disappeared for a few years, but now you can buy a dumb phone, for example running KaiOS, that charges with USB-C and supports modern cell networks. You can even get a Nokia!

There is absolutely no need to buy a smartphone to any kid younger than 15. Now for high school students it's a bit different, they should be old enough to have self control and respect rules to keep their phones in their bags during class.

j2kun 5 hours ago|||
They were not. The rule now is that they have to go into a special bag that cannot be opened while school is in session. Before they could be left in a backpack and snuck out or used between classes.
reedf1 5 hours ago|||
They are not allowed in any school I've been to, especially during class.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5 hours ago|||
I once had to sit in the principals office for bringing in some electronic fishing game. How we went from that to phones being allowed is insanity. They came like a tsunami.
jasonmp85 5 hours ago||
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50208 3 hours ago|
Now ... what do we do about the rest of society. This problem isn't just a school problem, it is whole of society, escpecially senior citizens. They are more prone to the problems of phones, social media, and continuous disinformation ... and they vote.
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