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Posted by betacollector64 3 days ago

General Motors is assisting with the restoration of a rare EV1(evinfo.net)
72 points | 84 comments
legitster 2 hours ago|
> That decision, and the fury it sparked among EV1 lessees who fought to keep their cars, is the subject of Chris Paine’s 2006 documentary “Who Killed the Electric Car?” It is essential viewing for anyone interested in how the auto industry, oil companies, regulators, and consumer culture shaped the trajectory of electric transportation. Paine does not let anyone off the hook easily, and the film holds up as both a piece of investigative storytelling and a snapshot of an industry at a crossroads.

The conspiracy about GM killing the EV1 is very hyperbolic and the documentary is mostly a fantasy.

Carmakers releasing test cars to markets and then destroying them was a common practice - GM did the same with their hydrogen cars, the famous turbine engine cars, and even large scale prototypes like the Aerovette. In many cases they were only able to circumvent safety/testing regulation because these were not registerable cars.

Even if the market tests were successful, the only placed they planned to sell them was California as a compliance car for CARB. No matter how you try to spin it, a lead-acid battery powered car was not ever going to be the car of the future.

NewJazz 1 hour ago|
Wait didn't they have a NiMH battery too?
linksnapzz 1 hour ago||
Eventually, near the end. The first run of them was lead-acid; the battery was about 60% of the weight of the vehicle.
ssimpson 1 hour ago||
My mom got to test one of these for like 3 months. While only a 2 seater, it was a super cool car. For the time it was very modern. And it was very quiet, it had a gentle horn you could honk so that people knew you were there. She let me drive a few times and it was also very quick.
nubinetwork 7 hours ago||
I've been watching these videos, I'm honestly shocked about the complete 180 gm is pulling...

In the past, they would have wanted the motors disabled and the batteries incapacitated (if they weren't already, because half of them were trash), if they couldn't legally scare you into letting them scrap the car.

I kindof feel like there's some ulterior motive, like they want another museum piece for themselves, or sales are really hurting and they want to drum up some good will. Call me skeptical if you must, but they _really_ didn't want these on the road.

xp84 6 hours ago||
I don’t think it was all that mysterious, or even sinister. The car was a compliance car, it was mandated by the state to exist, and was not at the time a profitable model. All of them were leased. When the mandate expired or whatever, selling the cars instead of taking them back would have meant supporting this very different car for a long time with parts and repair service. This would have been a huge headache, and not worth it by any measure. Yes, they could have attempted to make BEVs happen for the mass market in general, but every carmaker was free to do so and they all seemed to agree that it wasn’t a good risk until Tesla came years later and made that bet with the S and the 3. But that was 15 years of advancement later.

And GM could have crushed all of them, but apparently was proud enough of it and not afraid people would ‘discover its secrets’ and build a new EV, since they decided to just park a half dozen or whatever at schools for students to poke and prod at. I get that the optics of crushing them made them look like a villain from the “Captain Planet” cartoon, but it would have been foolish for them to do anything else.

legitster 2 hours ago|||
It's not just that the car was a compliance car, it's that these were experimental models. They were not able to be registered by individuals because they didn't go through all of the mandated safety regulations that normal models do.
arcfour 43 minutes ago||
So the state first mandates the cars exist, then mandates the cars be destroyed. Truly this is government efficiency at its finest.
maxerickson 5 hours ago||||
Was it even a compliance car?

It's eternally fascinating that people can't or won't grasp that the cars cost far more to produce than they could put them to market for, instead deciding that it was a big conspiracy.

It took until ~2015 for batteries to become practical for expensive mass market cars.

aeturnum 4 hours ago|||
> Was it even a compliance car?

I am not an expert but I believe that US regulations require that manufacturers make a range of vehicle types to sell on the US market. You don't need to sell a lot of, say, compact cars - but you need to offer a compact car in order to sell your cash-cow large trucks.

ndiddy 4 hours ago|||
CAFE didn't work like this, it was a lot dumber. Basically it weighed the fuel economy for vehicles under 6000 pounds between two categories: passenger cars (sedans, coupes, wagons) and light trucks (vans, SUVs, crossovers). Passenger cars had an MPG target of ~8 MPG higher than light trucks. Car manufacturers that couldn't get their MPG (weighted between sales of the two categories from that manufacturer) below the targets were fined. Essentially this incentivized car companies to sell fewer passenger cars and more light trucks so their target MPG was lower. This is why crossovers have basically taken over the market in the US. Car manufacturers modified their designs to count as light trucks (lowering the MPG by 1-2), but since the target for light trucks is 8 MPG lower than passenger cars, they look more compliant on paper. We've gone from passenger cars making up ~50% of US car sales in 2000 to ~20% of car sales today.

I use the past tense because the Trump admin has gotten rid of the fines for this regulation so it basically doesn't matter anymore (one of the few good moves it's done). It'll be interesting to see if small cars are able to make a recovery in the US, or if it's too late.

aeturnum 4 hours ago|||
I am sure it'll be a few years as manufacturers will worry that a future admin (if we get such a thing lol) could un-remove the fees - but it would be wonderful to see actual small trucks again.
nickff 2 hours ago|||
CAFE wasn't 'dumb', it was designed to prevent the 'big three' from manufacturing (new generations of) small cars outside the USA (i.e. in Mexico), with non-UAW labor. CAFE was not designed to protect the environment or reduce emissions; that was just a PR veneer to make it more palatable. You're completely correct that it led to strange designs, perhaps most notably the PT Cruiser (which was classified as a truck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_PT_Cruiser).
cucumber3732842 2 hours ago||
And it killed a bunch of useful smaller truckish vehicles because they scored poorly. The Ford Ranger, the Chevy Astro, the Crown Vic and every other sedan with a big ass.
bluGill 4 hours ago|||
California not US regulations in this case.
aeturnum 4 hours ago||
ah! thank you
ryukoposting 4 hours ago|||
And even now, the fantasy of the $30,000 EV hasn't really been realized. In the US, your only option right now is the Leaf, but good luck finding one for under $32,000.
xp84 3 hours ago||
If that was the fantasy even 6 years ago, the fantasy should have been updated for inflation to a $40,000 EV. I don’t even mean to exaggerate — that’s how much inflation we’ve had since 2020. We have plenty of sub-$40k EVs.
monocasa 1 hour ago||
Meanwhile Europe has access to $30k EVs because they didn't stock a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. Hell, a leapmotor to3 is almost down to $20k.
criddell 4 hours ago||||
I thought they destroyed them all because they didn't want to have to provide the legally required parts and service for them. Now that they are in classic car territory, those requirements no longer exist.
RealityVoid 3 hours ago|||
I find the obsession with ev1 very US centric. There were many many other electric cars released before EV1. I think that documentary is to blame for this, GM was not the only company exploring EV's and there were other players as well. They just, for some reason or another, did not commit to it fully.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_electric_vehic...

bluGill 6 hours ago||
This is common for all cars of all makes. You want people to buy new ones so there is an areg where old cars are a liability. People buying new cars trade them in after three years, so you want some value left so they can afford that, but you want them to wear out in about 12 so that people have reason to keep buying more instead of keeping the old. Then after about 25 years it is a collectors car and you can be proud of the few left - they are not impacting new sales much (if any) and give people reason to dream about cars.
recursive 2 hours ago||
I don't know what's inside, but I see a car with an EV1 body around my city. I only ever see it parked, not driving, but it's not always parked in the same spot, so I guess it must drive some time.
creantum 5 hours ago||
Tesla: Tarpening and Eberhard along with Musk’s cash changed the world. GM was a half hearted effort to please some politicians, as evidenced by leasing a few, and in the end destroying them all.
egorfine 4 hours ago||
It's an unfortunate accident that GM sent engineers instead of lawyers. I'm sure this will be corrected soon.
longislandguido 2 hours ago||
Look at that simple 90s dash and tactile controls.

Do you know how many more EVs would be adopted if they weren't marketing iPads-on-wheels to the masses? It's the biggest hindrance to the industry behind lack of charging infra.

Loudergood 4 minutes ago||
People act like other new cars aren't exactly the same on the inside.
1234letshaveatw 1 hour ago||
0?
rdtsc 6 hours ago||
> As GM’s team put it: “EV1 set in motion everything we’re doing in electric right now”

Sounds line GM is taking credit for EV industry’s success after they recalled and sent to the crusher the very car model these people are trying to restore.

ezfe 6 hours ago|
They’re taking credit for their own success? I don’t know how you can construe that to be the industry overall.
conception 6 hours ago|||
You mean Toyota and Tesla’s success? Let’s be real - the Prius and then Model S kickstarted the EV revolution.
mlhpdx 6 hours ago|||
If you read the history you’ll see the appropriate word is “restarted” the EV revolution. It was on and off again in a slow march to the point that allowed Tesla to exist. I’m not diminishing the role Tesla played, but it has to be taken in context. They stood on shoulders.
therealpygon 5 hours ago||
An over 125 year, often abandoned, stuttering march filled with stories of invisible battles by the entrenched to keep the status quo.
xp84 3 hours ago||
I think looking at every carmaker’s lineup should make it obvious that they don’t give a crap what powers a car, they are just trying to sell what’s popular. EVs were trendy for a couple years and a margin-subsidizing $7000 was available so everybody enthusiastically brought out EVs. Now they’re less popular so they’re all pulling back. Arguably even Tesla is doing so, given that Musk has intimidated that he didn’t really think Tesla was going to keep selling cars forever.

When the demand is sufficient, the cars will be sold in numbers to match it. Demand will increase as it becomes practical to own an EV for more people. This mainly has to do with charging infrastructure at every level, which is capital intensive for both individuals and governments.

therealpygon 5 hours ago||||
Do you suggest we ignore or include in this history the original contributions of the first electric cars from all the way back in the single digits of the 1900s?
bluGill 4 hours ago||
There was a long time between those cars and the modern electric car where the only thing electric was "golf carts" (not general purpose cars), or homemade conversions. The EV1 was the first commercial car in the memory of most people alive today. The 1900s ones were fun/interesting historical things, but not practical.
bluGill 6 hours ago|||
Those were important too, but the ev1 started that modern ev.
hamdingers 5 hours ago||||
It's not a success if you quit the race at the finish line, even if you were in the lead.
rdtsc 6 hours ago|||
Right before that in the paragraph:

> The EV1 introduced technologies that remain foundational to modern EVs

mikkupikku 6 hours ago||
It's a trap, they've got a car crusher at the ready for sure.
rozap 1 hour ago||
This is part of GM's broader marketing push to drum up goodwill from younger people. It's the same reason why they have a youtube series about the beginnings of the Cadillac F1 team, which is clearly produced for zoomer and millenial audiences.

I don't think there's anything nefarious here, they are just cultivating a particular image to try to sell cars. It's a reasonable marketing strategy, as marketing strategies go.

Loudergood 4 minutes ago||
Some Millennials are reaching their mid 40s now.
bobim 4 hours ago||
Maybe GM is still the legal owner since they were all leased, so that would be a possible sad outcome.
xp84 3 hours ago|||
If you’ve watched these guys videos, you would know it’s not some sort of cartoon villain trap. They took them to Detroit, showed them a ton of stuff, let them talk to a bunch of very sincere and cool engineers, gave them a bunch of unobtainium spare parts, and gave interviews on the record with executives. Let’s just say GM’s PR department is running a lot better than their cars do these days. Someone there saw the initial buzz about this find, and obviously convinced the C-suite that they could very easily score huge wins in public goodwill, partly counteracting all the “Who Killed the Electric Car” hype.
giobox 2 hours ago|||
If you follow their videos, they and a handful of others have secured title to their EV-1s. There are a small number of ways the cars were able to fall out of the leasing agreement and into properly titled private ownership.

In this case, they took advantage of the fact the car was abandoned in Georgia and went to impound action, which let them buy it from the State with title, bypassing any potential agreement with GM.

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