Top
Best
New

Posted by cainxinth 1 day ago

A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)(www.nippon.com)
444 points | 344 commentspage 4
_spduchamp 1 day ago|
What a coincidence... I was just in my backyard shed playing with my robot chopstick. https://youtu.be/BhBXliscj0I
lijok 10 hours ago||
Are these real or nonsensical ones like crossing the fork and knife on your plate means you didn’t enjoy it
koolba 1 day ago||
> 移り箸 Utsuribashi (also known as 渡り箸 wataribashi)

> To keep putting the chopsticks into the same side dishes. It is proper etiquette to first eat rice, move on to eat from a side dish, eat rice again, and then eat from a different side dish.

So keto itself is a faux pas?

> 返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi)

> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.

Ewww. I’d rather be rude than share germs.

tmathmeyer 1 day ago||
>> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.

> Ewww. I’d rather be rude than share germs.

I think this means you should use something other than your chopsticks to share food, and not just assume that "the back of my chopsticks are germ-free, I'll use that"

jwrallie 22 hours ago|||
You will quickly learn the first one because if you keep eating the delicious side dishes you will be only left with large amounts of bland rice to eat last.
grep_name 1 hour ago|||
I've always thought I'd like to visit Japan someday, but have always been worried about the cultural significance and omnipresence of white rice. Like, I can see how not eating rice would seem boorish (like you only want to eat the more expensive proteins, don't understand the purpose of a palate cleanser, etc), but living with type 1 diabetes I have not eaten white rice in literal years. Every single time I do, I regret it -- it's a complete nightmare to control your blood sugar after, sometimes for the entire rest of the day. I've even wondered if I could find a way to avoid being impolite by deliberately under eating the whole time if I were to visit, to make it clear I'm not just taking the good stuff and leaving the rice out of greed.
laughing_man 22 hours ago||||
It would be pretty irritating if someone in your dinner party ate the lion's share of the more flavorful food and left the rice for everyone else.
thaumasiotes 5 hours ago|||
> if you keep eating the delicious side dishes you will be only left with large amounts of bland rice to eat last.

At a Chinese restaurant, you're not given more than a small bowl of rice anyway. There is no way to "be left with large amounts".

wahnfrieden 1 day ago||
Keto diet doesn’t exist in Japanese cuisine. If you’re going to a keto friendly place, it’s something trendy and contemporary so this traditional advice obviously doesn’t apply. It is not a faux-pas to eat non traditional / non Japanese cuisine.
sneak 21 hours ago||
Keto diet doesn’t exist in western cuisine either. It’s a niche thing in both places, and both places have specific single dishes without carbs.
zeristor 15 hours ago||
This raises the question of what are the funeral rites.

They piece through the ashes of a cremation and pass them between each other?

I know the modern style of conveyor belt cremation is a bit impersonal.

It’ll take me a while to process this.

bigwheels 1 day ago||
Fascinating culture and raises numerous questions arising from my subsequent confusion:

1. > 返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi)

> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.

Does this mean it is preferable to use the tips that may have touched mouth to then serve more food? Or is this considered fine because it's also taboo to touch the tips to your mouth? (which only a BARBARIAN would do!)

2. > こすり箸 Kosuribashi

> To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters.

Just proceed to eat some splinters, then? What is the good etiquette way to handle low quality el-cheapo chopsticks?

---

I have been guilty of the above as well as:

Chigiribashi - Hold one chopstick in each hand and use them like a knife and fork to tear or cut food into smaller pieces.

Soroebashi - Hold chopsticks together and tap them on a dish or the top of the table to align the tips.

Namidabashi - Allow sauce or soup to drip from the tips of the chopsticks when eating. Namida means “tears.”

Nigiribashi - Grip both chopsticks in a fist.

Neburibashi - Lick the chopsticks.

Hashibashi - Place the chopsticks like a bridge across the top of a dish to show one is finished. Chopsticks should be placed on the hashioki (chopstick rest).

Furibashi - Shake off soup, sauce, or small bits of food from the tips of the chopsticks.

Mogibashi - Bite off and eat grains of rice that are stuck to the chopsticks.

Yokobashi - Line the chopsticks up together and use them like a spoon to scoop up food.

.. growing up my mom used to say, "What are you, raised by wolves!?" .. apparently, yes!

vitus 1 day ago||
> Kaeshibashi

The preference is to use a separate pair of communal chopsticks that is not used directly for eating.

> Kosuribashi

I have heard that this one is because it's considered to be an insult implying that the chopsticks are low-quality. (That said, if your chopsticks are indeed low-quality, then avoiding splinters is probably preferable to then visibly plucking splinters out of your fingers.)

0x3f 1 day ago|||
> Just proceed to eat some splinters, then? What is the good etiquette way to handle low quality el-cheapo chopsticks?

Well first of all the chopsticks are joined at the non-eating end, typically. So the splinters would be bothering your fingers more than anything.

It's rude because it insults the host, in a way. Anywhere that would care about you doing it should not be giving you the cheap chopsticks in the first place. If you're in a place that gives you them, they probably don't care about you doing it.

sudo_cowsay 1 day ago||
There are steel chopsticks (though not really common <-- only in Korea).
scheme271 15 hours ago||
The metal chopsticks are pretty much only get used in Korea. The shape and material of the chopsticks varies by country so you can make a good guess as to where someone is from based on which chopsticks they use.
wenc 1 day ago|||
The disposable wooden chopsticks in Japan don’t splinter (they’re higher quality and cost more than the ones we have in the US).

That’s why you don’t need to rub to get rid of splinters.

reaperducer 1 day ago|||
The disposable wooden chopsticks in Japan don’t splinter

If that was always true, there wouldn't be a word for it.

I've been given some pretty gnarly chopsticks at roadside places outside the main metropolitan areas.

refactor_master 1 day ago|||
Well that certainly depends on the establishment. I’ve picked out plenty of splinters here in Japan.
moron4hire 1 day ago||
I think it's important to point out that these are good manners for eating with Japanese people, not good manners for eating with chopsticks. There is no requirement to emulate Japanese eating manners if you're not in Japan and not anywhere near a person raised in Japanese cultur. There are other cultures that use chopsticks that do not necessarily have these manners.
cthalupa 1 day ago||
This is definitely true - but some of these are fairly universal, or at least that is my understanding. I believe the 'no sticking chopsticks upright in rice' one is shared between Japan, Korea, China, etc. for example - it looks like funerary incense/joss sticks in all three due to the shared aspects of their cultures, for example.
twodave 1 day ago||
Glad to know I haven’t picked up any seriously bad habits, but how the heck do you keep the chopsticks aligned without tapping them somewhere?

Most of these seem related to health/sanitary practices/being considerate more than anything. Just avoiding contaminating what others are going to eat with your own utensils is an easy way to describe several of them.

cthalupa 1 day ago|
You can just slide them with your fingers, even one handed, and it's not like they need to be perfectly aligned.

But, yeah, I tap them to align them all the time, have seen Japanese people do it day in and day out. I've even done it in some fine dining places in Japan. No one yelled at me, but I am a gaijin, so...

tempodox 17 hours ago||
Highly instructive, and some quite surprising to me as a gaijin.

> To take the tips of the chopsticks in one’s mouth.

Sometimes I'm having a hard time avoiding that. Apparently I need more practice.

derefr 15 hours ago|
I think that one refers to doing so when there is no food on the chopsticks. Picture tapping the chopsticks against your lips to show you’re thinking, if conversing while eating. The overarching rule being that you should put the chopsticks down whenever you’re not in the middle of picking up/moving food with them.

(Unless you want to come off as imitating a Rakugo storyteller. If you do, then go ahead and use them as a talking prop. But maybe make it clear that you’re not eating with those ones, so people don’t worry you’ll flick sauce at them!)

e-dant 23 hours ago||
Some of these I’ve been told are taboos in the opposite way. For example, the one about serving or taking food from the opposite end of the chopsticks, I was told, is polite. But here they say it is taboo. Maybe they meant it’s taboo not to do that?
jd24 51 minutes ago||
You do NOT want to use the opposite side of the chopstick. If you use chopsticks correctly, you shouldn't be touching other food you don't intend to take. Also if you are with company that you're close with people care less about you touching the food, but otherwise you'll want to use a serving utensil.
sneak 21 hours ago||
Yes, it’s weirdly ambiguous. But even that is performative, as you’re still using an unsanitary part - the part that has touched your hand vs the part that has touched your lips.
kristianc 13 hours ago||
Yeah, definitely not the "straight in" one...
tomcam 16 hours ago|
I married an Asian woman I met at work. Our boss called me in to ask if I was serious about marrying her and I said yes. He asked if I wanted any advice and I sincerely answered that I did. Our marriage was necessarily disruptive because it meant that she would also defect. That would cause problems up and down the management chain. His advice was for me to learn how to use chopsticks. that’s it. Nothing else.

I spent months learning how to use them properly in secret and finally deployed my skills when I thought I was pretty good. She didn’t notice. I then realized she almost always used a fork. In high school and college their meals were always served hastily and the students always brought a fork or spoon. they would eat standing up and had maybe five minutes to get the job done. No time for chopsticks.

When her parents came out to visit us after we got married I frantically asked her advice about good chopstick etiquette. I very much did not wish to cause her to lose face. She didn’t give a flying fuck. I honestly think I married one of the freest spirits in Asia, which is not necessarily a compliment.

She said I was doing fine and literally refused to give me any feedback at all, incorrectly claiming she wasn’t even that good. In fact, I think she only started to resume using chopsticks because I ended up finding them useful and now far prefer them to silverware.

I ended up having to learn most of the customs by watching people in restaurants. Just learning how to set them down right took additional months because I noticed far too late that they set their chopsticks down in a sort of V shape which is much harder than one might expect. Also, I am left-handed, but taught myself to do it right handed on the theory of that would also help me not lose face in front of the in-laws. It turns out they are also highly unconventional and probably didn’t care about my chopstick use one way or the other.

When we had kids, I would learn that Asian children who don’t learn to use chopsticks represent another way to lose face. It results in titanic power struggles within the family and makes everyone miserable. It’s a little like forcing kids here in the USA to eat their vegetables. By this time I had learned of her disinterest, so neither of us bothered to teach them. All of our children naturally picked it up with no apparent effort, including one who is very severely developmentally disabled.

alisonatwork 15 hours ago|
I feel like a lot of this is culture and class specific. I can't speak for Japan, but in China there are at least as many different levels of chopstick-using skill as anywhere in the west. Kids and elderly who can't pick up a peanut or a cherry tomato, people who find it entirely unproblematic to stab a slippery dumpling, people who think it's stupid to waste time trying to get fried rice into your mouth with chopsticks and just grab a spoon instead, people who dredge their way through the hotpot to find the treat they're looking for...

I often get the sense that foreigners getting stressed about (or feeling pride in) how well they use chopsticks is a weird kind of orientalism. Because, like, who cares if someone shows up in a western restaurant and uses a spoon instead of knife to saw through something, or grabs a big hunk with a fork and takes a bite, leaving the rest on the fork? Maybe you wouldn't do it if you were having dinner with the queen, but any other context nobody cares. I'm sure parents still try to teach their kids to eat polite way, and maybe even feel a bit embarrassed if their kids show themselves to be less well-behaved than the neighbors', but that's a universal thing so, eh.

tomcam 14 hours ago||
lol describing me as an Orientalist will amuse my family to no end but you made some cogent observations. All I can say is: face is a big thing in China. I respect my in-laws hugely. I did not want them to lose face nor to be made to feel uncomfortable on my behalf if I could help it. As far as I can tell Orientalism and pride had nothing to do with it. Or maybe you’re right and I am a deeply closeted chiaboo. I’ll watch some anime or whatever and get right back to you.
alisonatwork 13 hours ago||
Sorry, that wasn't really what I was getting at.

The thing I find interesting with orientalism is that it has a mirror in chauvinism from the other direction, both sides reinforcing the idea that there is something special about the cultural norms of people from East Asia in particular. It's almost as if there is a deliberate effort to reify cultural differences in a way that feels counterproductive.

I think these forces are especially noticeable living as a migrant to this part of the world, in that you sometimes find people gushing over you for being able to use what is actually a pretty unremarkable set of utensils or occasionally shitting on you for not knowing an obscure bit of etiquette that locals rarely perform. Either way it's just another form of the "western people like this, Chinese people like that" discourse which at best is vapid and at worst straight-up racist. I don't think it really helps to build a common sense of humanity.

Anyway, I feel like this kind of article is representative of the problem, in that it serves to create anxiety that there is some secret etiquette that must be performed in order to not be seen as an uncultured barbarian. Again, I have no experience with Japan so maybe they really are just That Damn Serious about how they use their chopsticks, but I doubt it. At least for me it was quite reassuring to find that - outside of the folks who really did hold chauvinist and/or racist views - most people in China cared no more about how I ate than how anyone else ate, and that the range of what was socially acceptable eating for all people was wide enough to make it clear that these sorts of articles tend to be either deliberately divisive or out-of-touch.

tomcam 7 hours ago||
> it was quite reassuring to find that - outside of the folks who really did hold chauvinist and/or racist views - most people in China cared no more about how I ate than how anyone else ate

OK I agree completely. You will see atrocious manners in an average bar there. But my in-laws are brilliant scientists and thoughtful, gracious people. My mother in law is my hero. If I can reduce any friction in her life I will. Likewise when they visited us they were always closely observant of my behavior.

I think some of what you are characterizing as chauvinism or Orientalism is what I view as courtesy? I could very well be wrong on that one or misinterpreting you.

cobbzilla 6 hours ago||
You’re both making valid and sincere points.

I think the confusion may be in a situation (regardless of culture) where one knows that a loved one’s family has a high regard for courtesy and manners, and you’re willing and eager to please them, sometimes this desire could be mistaken by others for an obsession or “reification” of the specific culture of the family.

I have enjoyed the politeness of the comments from you both and appreciate your courtesy!

More comments...