Posted by onlyspaceghost 17 hours ago
But the real cause of JS bloat is the so-called "front-end frameworks". Especially React.
First of all, why would you want to abstract away the only platform your app runs on? What for? That just changes the shape of your code but it ends up doing the same thing as if you were calling browser APIs directly, just less efficiently.
Second of all, what's this deal with mutating some model object, discarding the exact change that was made, and then making the "framework" diff the old object with the new one, call your code to render the "virtual DOM", then diff that, and only then update the real DOM tree? This is such an utterly bonkers idea to me. Like, you could just modify your real DOM straight from your networking code, you know?
Seriously, I don't understand modern web development. Neither does this guy who spent an hour and some to try to figure out React from the first principles using much the same approach I myself apply to new technologies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGCULPO_DE
You can also use your underparts as a hat. It doesn't mean its a good idea.
The main issue is the tooling. JSX is nice enough (not required though) to want a transpiler that will also bundle you app. It’s from that point things get crazy. They want the transpiler to also be a bundler so that it manages their css as well. They also want it to do minification and dead code elimination. They want it to support npm dependencies,etc…
This is how you get weird ecosystems.
I am a core maintainer of Astro, which is largely based around the idea that you don't need to always reach for something like React and can mostly use the web platform. However even I will use something like React (or Solid or Svelte or Vue etc) if I need interactivity that goes beyond attaching some event listeners. I don't agree with all of its design decisions, but I can still see its value.
https://youtu.be/Q9MtlmmN4Q0?t=519&is=Wt3IzexiOX4vMPZf
Also, why do you use SQL and databases? Couldn’t you just modify files on the filesystem?
> Also, why do you use SQL and databases? Couldn’t you just modify files on the filesystem?
Anyone can read a MySQL data file. IIRC the format is pretty straightforward. The whole point of doing it through the real MySQL server is to make use of indexes, the query optimizer, and proper handling of concurrency, at least. Sure you can reimplement those things, but at this point congrats, you've just reimplemented the very database system you were trying to avoid, just worse.
badge.textContent = count > 99? '99+' : count
badge.classList.toggle('show', count > 0)
paper.classList.toggle('show', count > 0)
fire.classList.toggle('show', count > 99)
To be fair, React is especially wasteful way to solve that problem. If you want to look at the state od the art, something like Solid makes a lot more sense.
It's much easier to appreciate that problem if you actually try to build complex interactive UI with vanilla JS (or something like jQuery). Once you have complex state dependency graph and DOM state to preserve between rerenders, it becomes pretty clear.
I just render as much as possible on the server and return commands like "hide the element with that ID" or "insert this HTML after element with that ID" in response to some ajax requests. Outside of some very specific interactive components, I avoid client-side rendering.
SPA was mean for UI that relies on the client state mostly, not on the server data (figma and other kind of online editors).
Show me a website where client side interaction is implemented in perl.
There will be almost no bloat to worry about.
The other two, atomic architecture and ponyfills, are simply developer inexperience (or laziness). If you're not looking at the source of a package and considering if you actually need it then you're not working well enough. And if you've added code in the past that the metrics about what browsers your visitors are using show isn't needed any more, then you're not actively maintaining and removing things when you can. That's not putting the user first, so you suck.