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Posted by cainxinth 3 hours ago

Is it a pint?(isitapint.com)
130 points | 117 comments
jjgreen 3 hours ago|
In Yorkshire a short pint will result in "Could you fit a whiskey in there?", "yes of course", "THEN FILL IT WITH BEER"
calebelac 3 hours ago|
I'm going to start using this approach. Cheers!
BashiBazouk 3 hours ago||
Reminds me of backpacking up and down the east coast of Australia. I learned that Fosters is only northern New South Wales for beer. Every place had their own preferred beer, but maddeningly they all had their own glass. A tenner, a schooner. Each a slightly different size. I made friends with a guy in Hobart that was staying in the hostel as he was doing research there, I think he was a biologist. He took me to his favorite pub as they served imperial pints. I think who ever is behind this site needs to do some serious research in Australia as they could, at least, double the "know your glass" section...
mcbain 2 hours ago|
You might enjoy the matrix of regional sizes and names on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Australia#Beer_glasses

No, us locals don't know them all either!

stego-tech 10 minutes ago||
This is the sort of goodness the internet was made for. I'm no beer drinker myself, but I'm already sharing it with those in my circles who do.

Also a great way to teach folks on how to hold others honest and accountable, a skill sorely underdeveloped at present. Start with the pours, and push upward from there.

lucideer 3 hours ago||
I'm from Ireland, where filling beers precisely up to the brim is practically a religion, & many barmen will even take the glass back & top it up if they see the head diminishing too quickly in the space of time it takes you to pick the freshly poured pint up.

One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.

pmh 2 hours ago||
> not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top

I'm wondering if this is due to the prevalence of cask ales vs bottle/keg conditioning. The former is relatively uncommon in Belgium and you want the head from the latter.

That said, oversized glassware (e.g. Duvel's tulip for aromatics) and/or fill lines are also used to accommodate the head while still not cheating the customer out of volume.

lucideer 1 hour ago||
It could well have emerged as a cultural norm from the prevalence of heads, but I've seen it often for very moderate heads, with a gap left above the foam.

> not cheating the customer out of volume

I don't think it's cheating if its the norm. One would expect prices to be set appropriately for the average volume served (i.e. a full glass would be a bonus rather than the gap being a loss).

I do just find it odd, coming myself from the opposite culturally.

amonon 2 hours ago|||
My understanding is Belgian beer culture considers the aroma to be an important part of the experience. But I’ve never been, that’s all through osmosis.
dkarl 1 hour ago||
This is exactly it. That's why the glasses have the same basic form (stem, bowl, and tapered rim) as wine glasses and snifters. The liquid sits in the bowl, and the aroma is captured in the empty space between the liquid and the rim.
ahofmann 2 hours ago|||
I remember watching the cornetto trilogy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Flavours_Cornetto ) and always wondering why on earth they fill up the glasses up to the brim. It is uncomfortable to transport this way and not spill beer.
fanf2 2 hours ago|||
When CAMRA was new in the early 1970s, they started a campaign for oversize glasses holding a pint to the line instead of a pint to the rim, so that there would be space for a pint of liquid and a head in the glass. The big breweries hated this idea and mounted a reactionary campaign arguing things like it would be too expensive to replace all the glasses, or serve customers the full measure they had paid for. (My father was a new recruit at Guinness and sadly one of his early tasks was the pint-to-brim campaign.)
JetSetIlly 58 minutes ago||
I no longer drink in pubs but in my neck of the woods, the pubs that specialised in cask ale often had lined glasses.

The problem was that many people insisted on the glass being filled to the brim, because they felt they were being short changed. So it solved one problem but created another.

OJFord 2 hours ago|||
First sip's at the bar; then you can
thih9 1 hour ago||
Here are your beers lads, I didn't spill anything! They taste good too.
dismalaf 2 hours ago|||
In Czech Republic they usually pour 3 fingers of head. But the measure line is also part way down the glass, the foam all above the line...
ahartmetz 19 minutes ago||
Same in Germany. In Belgium, the glasses don't have a line and they don't fill them to the brim neither! The only thing that prevents pubs from cheating you out of some of your beer is their reputation. And to be honest, I sometimes had doubts about getting all that I paid for.
philipwhiuk 2 hours ago|||
Kind of.

Guinness glasses are exactly a pint, so the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer.

This is tolerated/expected and so de facto correct but de jure perhaps not.

lucideer 1 hour ago||
> the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer

I hate to be pedantic but pint being volumetric, you're still getting a pint, independent of density. Also - a nitrogen head doesn't dissipate, so you never get a gap.

I'm now curious though whether a nitrogen head is less dense than a CO2 head...

ahartmetz 17 minutes ago||
It feels much denser, and I think it does dissipate... but slowly.
petesergeant 2 hours ago||
The only sensible approach here is pint-to-line glasses. I don't want my glass filled to the very top where I'll spill it, I want it filled to the pint line. Sadly in the UK up to 5% of the pint is allowed to be foam, but I'd expect any sensible barman in the UK to top me up to the pint line if I asked, and be apologetic about it.
xnorswap 3 hours ago||
I got poured a pint by a newbie behind the bar at a hotel recently and she looked embarrassed as it was about 40% head, but to her credit she went to fetch the shift supervisor before I said anything.

He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be charging them for just for the half" etc.

There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you short a pint too much.

vojtapol 3 hours ago||
Yes. Americans/Canadians famously can't pour beer properly. If you are pouring a pilsner or really any lager, a head of at least 2 inches is actually correct and absolutely desirable. The way it's poured in Canada (no head) is borderline undrinkable to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dggKezrSQxI

mb7733 2 hours ago|||
Preferences vary on both sides of the Atlantic. Another comment on this post complains that Americans pour beer wrong because they _do_ pour with a head.

> Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington

masfuerte 2 hours ago||||
If an establishment wants to serve drinks with a head they should use glasses with a mark on the side indicating the measure, rather than glasses which need to be brim full. Using the latter style of glass and including a head is just ripping off the customer.
bregma 1 hour ago||||
How do you measure the head through the red solo bubba cup?

Really, no self-respecting Canadian would drink beer out of anything except directly out of the bottle, can, or keg.

consp 2 hours ago||||
We call that kind of beer without any head "dead". Measurement here is about two fingers width, and if you do it the first time and screw up it is two fingers in length (second part is of course tounge-in-cheek).
skipants 2 hours ago||||
As a Canadian: hard agree. Beer without head is gross.
mattmanser 49 minutes ago||||
You should try the Dutch!

They think a big head means a good lager and every pint you get is 80% head.

secondcoming 2 hours ago|||
If I get a beer with no head I'm assuming the glass was dirty
anfractuosity 42 minutes ago|||
Maybe it was a Czech Mlíko pour ;) The faucets they use are pretty cool (https://www.lukrfaucets.com/en/)
post-it 3 hours ago||
I'm not sure I understand, why didn't she just top it up?
xnorswap 2 hours ago|||
Who knows, she obviously lacked experience, I guess she just panicked or worried it might be an issue with the barrel rather than her pour?
dismalaf 3 hours ago||||
Right? Just top it up, let some of the foam cascade over the side... Foam always forms in the keg if it sits for too long so you need to let some of it out anyway.
cesaref 22 minutes ago||
On the subject of the weights and measures to check that a pint is a pint, I remember the father of a friend of mine at university who was responsible for the weights and measures for Staffordshire. I think he was the undersheriff or something like that, and that the official pint was part of the collection.

This would have been in the late 80s - i've no idea if it was still in use, but i've a feeling that the law hadn't necessarily moved on, so I guess the official measure could have been required if challenged in court.

ch_123 3 hours ago||
In the UK and Ireland, a pint is 20 oz. (equivalent to just over 19 US ounces), so I always feel cheated by 16 oz. "pint" glasses in the US.
vlod 2 hours ago||
Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington.
mcjiggerlog 2 hours ago||
Well, depending on the type of beer, that's intentional. It's not always the faux-pas that it would be to do this when serving cask ale in the UK.
bardak 2 hours ago||
But usually when that is the case they will use glassware that has a 20oz line on the glass with room for the head.
lbourdages 2 hours ago|||
It is the same in Canada [1] yet I frequently see beer sold in "US pints" over here. I assume they do it so they can advertise cheaper prices (the amount being smaller). Some places will write the glass size in ounces, but some won't.

It is one of my pet peeves for sure.

[1]: https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...

consp 2 hours ago|||
A pint in the Netherlands usually is 500ml. In very rare cases, but only in real pubs (not mass market "Irish" pubs) you get an actual pint. So you are cheated out of about ~68ml in that case. Vs the US you get a few ml more.
amiga386 2 hours ago|||
As far as I knew, Netherlands pubs typically sold:

- 200ml "fluitje" (little flute)

- 250ml "pintje" (little pint), often sold in a "vaasje" (vase, a tapered beer glass). This is the typical beer measure: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintje "Het bestelde glas pils heeft doorgaans een inhoud van 25 cl"

They also sell standard bottled beer in 300ml and standard cans in 330ml: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standaardglas

I was not aware that 500ml was usual for the Netherlands. It is usual in, say, Germany, where they also sell the 1 litre Maß

ahartmetz 11 minutes ago||
The Maß is only a thing in Bavaria and strongly Bavarian-themed places, and almost nonexistent for bottles or cans anywhere in Germany. Faxe (which is Danish) sells one liter cans and some Czech brands sell or used to sell 1.5 liter plastic bottles - that's about it. The next common size is 5 liter mini kegs.
jcul 1 hour ago||||
Do they actually call it a pint or just a half litre / large beer?

That's seems to be the norm in a lot of mainland Europe.

ch_123 2 hours ago||||
A standard US pint is about 473ml so a US pint is ~95ml less than an imperial pint.
thrance 2 hours ago|||
Same thing here in France. Except I've never seen any "real" pints here, it's always 50cl.
dghf 3 hours ago|||
This is why I get agitated when Americans claim to use imperial units. If they did, their pints would be the correct size.
cjs_ac 2 hours ago|||
Americans don't claim to use imperial weights and measures; they use customary weights and measures, which were also used in the UK prior to the creation of imperial units with the Weights and Measures Act 1824.
kube-system 2 hours ago|||
There are many people in America who do not know the difference, the mistake is fairly common.
bee_rider 1 hour ago||
At this point they are just American units, right? Since the UK has upgraded already.
cjs_ac 1 hour ago|||
The origin of US Customary units is British, even if the US, Liberia and Myanmar are the last countries still using it. The UK has almost entirely adopted metric (yards and miles are still used for measuring distances on roads and pints are still used for milk and beer, and the last government made the eccentric decision to permit pints for wine, which no producer used because they couldn't get the bottles), but these systems of units have identities beyond whether or not they're in use anywhere.

EDIT/CORRECTION: Milk is sold in multiples of 568 mL, so while the quantities are pints, the measurement is metric.

ascorbic 1 hour ago||||
Beer and cider are the only drinks that are legally not sold by metric volume in the UK. They have to be served by the pint, 2/3, 1/2 or 1/3. Every other drink has to use metric.
rafram 1 hour ago||||
Not really. The UK uses imperial units for most of the things you use units for in daily life (roads, cooking, drink sizes, body weight, utilities, land area...), even though they theoretically converted to metric. Canada is similar.
ZeWaka 1 hour ago|||
That's why we call it the US Customary System.
alnwlsn 2 hours ago|||
The (incorrect) claim is indeed made in every single metric vs "imperial" comments section I've come across.
bryanrasmussen 2 hours ago|||
surely if that was the claim George Washington would never have had his dream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqfVE-fykk

loeg 3 hours ago|||
It's not completely uncommon to be offered 16 oz or 20 oz as options in the US. But I see it more at "fast casual" restaurants than bars or more upscale restaurants.
cbm-vic-20 2 hours ago||
And of course, what an "ounce" means may vary. According to Wikipedia "An imperial fluid ounce is defined in British law as exactly 28.4130625 millilitres, while a US customary fluid ounce is exactly 29.5735295625 mL, and a US food labelling fluid ounce is 30 mL."
dfawcus 2 hours ago|||
The volume of UK and US fluid ounces being different also doesn't help.

The UK pint is 568ml, apparently a US pint is 473 ml.

eduction 2 hours ago||
Your pubs kindly return the favor when we order whiskey. As Hunter S Thompson is reported to have quipped in a bar your side of the Atlantic: "What is this, a sample?"
BoxOfRain 2 hours ago||
That's fair, can't argue with that one.

Personally I'd have us use what the Royal Navy used to serve its rum ration in, the half-gill. This is 1/8 of a British pint or 71 millilitres, and the rum would have been a minimum of 54%!

Fractional gills were the pre-metric shot measure in the UK, but they were still pretty stingy. 1/6 gill in England, 1/5 or 1/4 gill in Scotland, and 1/4 gill in Northern Ireland.

bombcar 3 hours ago||
In the EU I noticed lots of glasses had markings on the side - if it was full to the line, it was a pint (or liter or whatever).

McDonalds cups have a line for ice.

Symbiote 3 hours ago||
At least in the UK it's a legal requirement to use marked glassware when serving beer, cider and wine. (Or to use a marked measuring cylinder and pour that into the drinkware, which is sometimes done for wine.)

It's also the law in at least some EU countries, although I haven't checked beyond Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line

BoxOfRain 2 hours ago||
In true British fashion the requirements for draught beer and cider are in pints, while wine is sold in millilitres.
RGamma 3 hours ago|||
Measuring beer is serious business in Germany to the point the EU commission had to comment on a rule change that supposedly forbade the usage of steins for foaming drinks (it didn't, but Germany wanted to be extra strict): https://www.bayern3.de/bier-steinkrug-eu-richtlinie

https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellun...

tveita 2 hours ago|||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line

Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud report to your local consumer protection agency. A crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.

bombcar 2 hours ago||
The US is a different place; though I will say that in Europe everything seemed to be right on the line, whereas in the US I'd say that most pours were to the very brim (likely giving me more than advertised).
luplex 3 hours ago||
and crucially, foam has to be above the line.

There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not verify that the foam really starts above the line.

As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is visible signage that informs customers about their right to pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the amount. Source (German): https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-...

In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its spiritual successor. German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...

jghn 3 hours ago||
In the US at least it's pretty common to see bars using cheater pints. They look like 16 oz pint glasses but with a few tricks wind up only holding 14 oz
eternauta3k 56 minutes ago|
One thought I keep coming back to is the immense consequences of how our units of length, weight and volume were defined. Products are often sold with round numbers (1 liter, 0.5 liter, 1 kg, etc). If you could go back in time and fiddle with e.g. the definition of a pint, you'd see that reducing its volume would lead to people drinking less, until it's so small that people just order two pints.
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