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Posted by giuliomagnifico 11 hours ago

Nitrile and latex gloves may cause overestimation of microplastics(news.umich.edu)
446 points | 189 commentspage 2
beloch 5 hours ago|
"The researchers used air samplers which are fitted with a metal substrate. Air passes through the sampler, and particles from the atmosphere deposit onto the substrate. Then, using light-based spectroscopy, the researchers are able to determine what kind of particles are found on the substrate.

Clough prepared the substrates while wearing nitrile gloves, which is recommended by the guidance of literature in the microplastics field. But when she examined the substrates to estimate how many microplastics she captured, the results were many thousands of times greater than what she expected to find."

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The very first thing that should have been done is to run results for a substrate that hadn't been placed in the sampler. You need to know what a zero result looks like just to characterize your setup. You'd also want to run samples with known and controlled micro-plastic concentrations. Why didn't they do this? Their results are utterly meaningless if they didn't.

s0rce 5 hours ago||
That does seem like an oversight. We routinely run process blanks for elemental analysis at my job. I guess if the metal substrates had specifications on no particles you might skip this, obviously a big mistake if another step (ie. handling with gloves) introduced contamination.

In surface science the baggy clear polyethylene are widely known to be cleaner than other options.

MinimalAction 5 hours ago||
Yeah, where is their control sample without any substrate on the sampler?
s0rce 5 hours ago||
No substrate in the sampler means there would be nothing to test. Can't tell if you are joking.
ktokarev 5 hours ago||
the_plastic_detox documentary on netflix promotes the idea that microplastics cause infertility. this is based on 6 couples 90 days experiment.

they tracked levels of plastic-related chemicals and fertility markers. after plastic detox 3 out of 6 couples got pregnant.

the whole research process methodology, not just measurement, miss critical assessment

ErigmolCt 6 hours ago||
So the takeaway is: we've been accidentally adding "microplastics" with the very gloves we use to avoid contamination. That's almost poetic
rflrob 5 hours ago|
Stearates aren’t microplastic plastics, though, they’re just similar enough under a microscope and in some chemical analyses. Without knowing which stearates glove manufacturers use (or what exactly it is about microplastics that is harmful), it’s difficult to to say whether the stearates will have the same harmful effects.
AndrewKemendo 4 hours ago||
The way this study was done makes perfect sense for finding this cross-contamination issue, but does not actually address how microplastics samples are extracted and found in sampling studies.

The below meta-study largely discusses sampling methods and protection from cross contamination so everyone here acting like this one study’s somehow invalidates decades of quality research:

>Due to the wide contamination of the environment with microplastics, including air [29], measures should be taken during sampling to reduce the contamination with these particles and fibers. The five rules to reduce cross-contamination of microplastic samples are: (1) using glass and metal equipment instead of plastics, which can introduce contamination; (2) avoiding the use of synthetic textiles during sampling or sample handling, preferring the use of 100% cotton lab coat; (3) cleaning the surfaces with 70% ethanol and paper towels, washing the equipment with acid followed by ultrapure water, using consumables directly from packaging and filtering all working solutions; (4) using open petri dishes, procedural blanks and replicates to control for airborne contamination; (5) keeping samples covered as much as possible and handling them in clean rooms with controlled air circulation, limited access (e.g. doors and windows closed) and limited circulation, preferentially in a fume hood or algae-culturing unit, or by covering the equipment during handling [15], [26], [95], [105], [107]. A fume hood can reduce 50% of the contamination [105] while covering samples during filtration, digestion and visual identification can reduce more than 90% of contamination [95].

So don’t ghost ride the whip about the death of the microplastic plague just yet.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016599361...

nobodyandproud 6 hours ago||
Finally some good news.
creesch 6 hours ago|
Good news with a note:

> That’s not to say that there is no microplastics pollution, the U-M researchers are quick to say. > > “We may be overestimating microplastics, but there should be none. There’s still a lot out there, and that’s the problem,”

fHr 8 hours ago||
Didnt they use for newest studies to detect microplastic in placentas I think only non plastic omitting alternative gloves and material. Can't recall there it was specifically mentioned in a worldclass ARTE docu about microplastics maybe some ARTE Ultras here can recall.
inglor_cz 9 hours ago||
While we are used to associate "the observer effect" with particle physics, it can appear in biology and/or chemistry as well.

Keeping things meticulously clean on the microscopic level is a complicated task. One of the many reasons why so few EUV chip fabs even exist.

amelius 8 hours ago|
By that same effect we probably introduced life on Mars already.
firesteelrain 7 hours ago||
It’s not improbable that some micro organism might have escaped the safety protocols. The likelihood it is still alive is low
thomasgeelens 8 hours ago||
this feels like such a weird oversight in such a controlled environment: "oh my bad it was the gloves!" I wonder in how many other studies this happened?
refulgentis 5 hours ago|
It wasn't an oversight? They sighted it immediately, hunted it down, then wrote it up for you.
johnbarron 6 hours ago||
A rediscovery...six years later:

"When Good Intentions Go Bad — False Positive Microplastic Detection Caused by Disposable Gloves" - https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.0c03742

From the study in the OP you cannot derive that current studies on microplastics are not valid. The headline framing that scientists have been measuring their own gloves, is science journalism doing what it does best...

Stearates are water soluble soaps, so any study using standard wet chemistry extraction, and that is most of them, washes them away before analysis even begins. Stearates also cant mimic polystyrene, PET, PVC, nylon, or any of the dozens of other polymers routinely found in environmental and human tissue samples.

Nothing to see here.

RobGR 5 hours ago|
Why do you say "nothing to see here" ? The existence of the earlier paper does not imply that procedures corrected for this afterwards. Is there any published protocol for a study since that first article that mentions avoiding stearate powder from gloves ?
throwup238 9 hours ago|
Called it!

> To be honest, after reading some of these microplastics papers I'm starting to suspect most of them are bullshit. Plastics are everywhere in a modern lab and rarely do these papers have proper controls, which I suspect would show that there is a baseline level of microplastic contamination in labs that is unavoidable. Petri dishes, pipettes, microplates, EVERYTHING is plastic, packaged in plastic, and cleaned using plastic tools, all by people wearing tons of synthetic fibers.

> We went through this same nonsense when genetic sequencers first became available until people got it into their heads that DNA contamination was everywhere and that we had to be really careful with sample collection and statistical methods. [1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40681390

gww 9 hours ago||
I haven't really read the studies but shouldn't they have negative controls to negate these effects? Wouldn't that let the author's correct for a baseline contamination level in the lab?
throwup238 8 hours ago|||
That was the difficulty with DNA: how do you make that control if everything is contaminated and minor variations in protocol (like wafting your hands over the samples one too many times) changes the baseline?

It took years to figure out proper methods and many subfields have their own adjusted procedures and sometimes even statistical models. At least with DNA you could denature it very effectively, I’m not sure how they’re going to figure out the contamination issue with microplastics.

gww 8 hours ago||
I have worked at a sequencing center before. DNA contamination is easier to mitigate because the lab disposables aren't made out of what you are testing. Disposables are almost always plastic and tend to have minimal DNA contamination. Environmental DNA contamination is largely mitigated with PCR hoods and careful protocols/practices. However, these procedures don't mitigate DNA contamination at the collection level, which is likely where the statistical models you mentioned help.

I can't imagine wafting your hands over the tubes would change the plastic amounts substantially compared to whatever negative controls the papers used. But again, I am not an expert on this kind of analytical chemistry. I always worry more about batch effects. But it does seem like microplastics are becoming the new microbiome.

codebje 9 hours ago|||
On the one hand, hundreds or perhaps thousands of studies might be wrong. On the other hand, this one might be wrong. Who's to say?
estearum 8 hours ago|||
Not even that! This study doesn't even say contamination is causing overestimation. It says that it's possible.

But as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, everyone knows that it's possible and take measure to mitigate it.

A paper that said those mitigations were insufficient or empirically found not to work would be interesting. A paper saying "you should mitigate this" is... not very interesting.

xienze 8 hours ago||
> Not even that! This study doesn't even say contamination is causing overestimation. It says that it's possible.

From the article:

> They found that on average, the gloves imparted about 2,000 false positives per millimeter squared area.

I dunno, that seems like a lot of false positives. Doesn’t that strongly imply that overestimation would be a pretty likely outcome here? Sounds like a completely sterile 1mm^2 area would raise a ton of false positives because of just the gloves.

estearum 7 hours ago||
The way you mitigate this is by using negative samples. Basically blank swabs/tubes/whatever that don't have the substance you're testing in it, but that is handled the same way.

Then the tested result is Actual Sample Result - Negative Sample Result.

So you'd expect a microplastic sample to have 2,000 plus N per mm^2, and N is the result of your test.

throwup238 8 hours ago|||
That has happened many times in scientific research. The aforementioned fad in DNA sequencing was one such case where tons of papers before proper methods were developed are entirely useless, essentially just garbage data. Another case is fMRI studies before the dead salmon experiment.
pton_xd 7 hours ago|||
> Plastics are everywhere in a modern lab and rarely do these papers have proper controls, which I suspect would show that there is a baseline level of microplastic contamination in labs that is unavoidable. Petri dishes, pipettes, microplates, EVERYTHING is plastic, packaged in plastic, and cleaned using plastic tools, all by people wearing tons of synthetic fibers.

Maybe so, but plastics are also everywhere in our daily lives, including on the food we eat and in the clothes we wear. As we speak I just took some eggs out of a plastic carton, unwrapped some cheese from plastic wrap, and got oatmeal out of a plastic bag. The socks and pants I'm wearing are made of polyester.

If plastics cause contamination in a lab, would you not also expect similar contamination outside of the lab?

Snoozus 7 hours ago|||
You would, but if you do studies that claim that microplastics accumulate in our bodies or even in out brains it makes a difference.
throwup238 5 hours ago|||
I think you underestimate how much plastic is consumed in a lab doing experiments or analysis. I suspect it's an order of magnitude or two more than people are regularly exposed to at home or other non-industrial settings.

When I was an automation engineer at a lab, each liquid handler alone could go through several pounds of plastic pipette tips in a single day. All of that is made out of plastic and coated in a different thin layer of plastic to change the wettability of the tip. Even the glassware often comes coated in plastic and all these coatings are the thin layers most likely to create microplastics from abrasion (like the force of the pipette picking up the tip!). Throw all the packaging on top of that and there is just an insane amount of plastic.

The only place I've seen more plastic consumed is industrial and food manufacturing where everything is sprayed and resprayed with plastic coatings to reduce fouling.

creesch 6 hours ago|||
> That’s not to say that there is no microplastics pollution, the U-M researchers are quick to say. > > “We may be overestimating microplastics, but there should be none. There’s still a lot out there, and that’s the problem,”
andersonpico 6 hours ago||
shouldn't you be particularly attentive to your bias then? an article came out that _seems_ to confirm your previous belief that you arrive at without really testing? like everyone itt that is looking like the comments of an steven crowder comment section in a post about climate change
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