Posted by toomuchtodo 3 hours ago
Best I can do: Non-competes are (possibly) unenforceable anyway, so signing one maybe acts as a value signal for the employee? "I'd have to violate my non-compete, so in order to do that and permanently burn the bridge with my current company, you need to pay me $X + $Y."
Frankly I don't buy it, though, because it assumes too much about the rationality of all actors involved and the savviness of the employee during negotiations.
It probably depends on the kind of job.
If say Walmart tried to use a noncompete to stop cashiers from going to Target there probably is no reasonable argument in favor of that.
On the other when the employee is a top level executive who knows all the company's trade secrets and all their plans for the next year or so and they want to go to a direct competitor it is hard to see how they won't use that information at the competitor. Even if they scrupulously try to uphold any NDAs they are under and so don't consciously do it stuff will leak.
If the first company sues accusing the second company and/or ex-employee of using such information it can get pretty messy, and consumer judicial resources better used for other things.
A policy then of allowing noncompetes in this situation might overall be beneficial. Top level executives are generally well compensated and should be sufficiently sophisticated financially to understand the consequences of a noncompete and take that into account when deciding on taking the job so having to sit out 6-12 months before taking a directly competing job should not be a serious issue.
[1] well, as of when I last looked a few years ago
For many companies, a lot of their value is in their intellectual property. Non-competes exist not because the company will enforce it against employees (they might, but they usually don't), but more as a fig-leaf to potential investors down the line asking about the value of the intellectual property. The argument goes, if someone could easily leave the company with the knowledge earned and go to a competitor, then the investment wouldn't be as valuable.
It makes it possible to confidently buy a business that's mostly or all goodwill. Otherwise the previous owner can simply poach all the clients.
Also lots of jurisdictions allow non-competes as long as the employee is paid for the duration of the non-compete clause. Obvious win there: paid vacation or double up your salary by working for a non-competing firm.
Non-competes on employees without compensation are obviously bad.
Non-competes have been heavily limited or outright voided in California. That's an easy and obvious rebuttal to the Silicon Valley argument.
U.S. Chamber of Commerce and business groups file lawsuit challenging FTC noncompete ban - https://www.fmglaw.com/employment-law-blog-us/u-s-chamber-of... - April 26th, 2024
> Less than 24 hours later, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Business Roundtable, the Texas Association of Business, and the Longview Chamber of Commerce filed a lawsuit against the FTC in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas alleging that the consumer protection agency lacks the authority to issue rules that define unfair methods of competition, and instead, the FTC Act only allows it to bring cases challenging particular practices. The Chamber’s Complaint also contends that even if the FTC possessed such authority, the “noncompete rule would still be unlawful because noncompete agreements are not categorically unlawful under Section 5.” The lawsuit further argues that the rule is “impermissibly retroactive” and reflects an “arbitrary and capricious exercise” of the FTC’s power.
> The Chamber of Commerce is seeking an order “vacating and setting aside the noncompete rule in its entirety” and an order permanently enjoining the FTC from enforcing the rule. The plaintiffs are also seeking an order to delay the effective date and implementation of the noncompete ban until the conclusion of the case.
1. lobbyists vying for a company who wants to keep power
2. the legislature having its own vested interest from relationship/deal/lobbying
3. the minority of constituents are the ones who constantly call in and go to townhalls, because they have the time, money, or energy to do so compared to someone who's at work during a townhall.
TLDR Talk is cheap, work and change is hard and painful (broadly speaking). Observe actions, not words.
[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-says...
Related:
"CEO Said a Thing" Journalism - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47577735 - March 2026
In other words, a completely useless scare tactic.
The legislation needs to change. The situation as it stands is ripe for barratry and bullying.
The take home is dont take tech jobs in states where non-compete clauses are still legal.
But I do agree in general, never take compensation upon leaving a company, for whatever reason. Then everything is certainly unenforceable.
As for leaving the country... even if a non-compete is found to be enforceable (due to you being self-sufficient, or sufficently compensated), then the scope cannot be country wide. It has to be limited to a particular reasonable geography and a particular reasonable field.
The first part is probably usually true, because places where non-competes are enforceable generally will not enforce them if they are overly broad.
But for tech workers there are almost always other jobs that the worker can qualify for and pay similarly to their old job but are not covered by the non-compete and then then non-competes do get enforced even though the worker is not independently wealthy.
A fairly recent example [1].
[1] https://callaborlaw.com/blog/former-draftkings-employee-lose...
Patents provide some protection, but it is flawed because a big company can put you out of business if you get into a patent war. An employee should be able to leave at any time and work for a competitor, but maybe should not do identical work, otherwise startups will have a hard time protecting their IP.
The market should be able to solve this problem without the government setting arbitrary rules, and people should be allowed to sign contracts that limit or restrict their freedom, so long as it involves informed consent from all parties.
If Microsoft wants to hire an AI expert for a million dollars a year, and restrict him from competing for 2 years after leaving Microsoft so as to avoid losing market advantage, that seems like a reasonable thing for Microsoft to want. If all Apple has to do to get all the Copilot secrets is hire the chief copilot engineer for 1.5 million, seems like that creates a toxic dynamic and all but guarantees acquihires and a near immediate turnaround in a startup to corporate pipeline for raiding IP.
Maybe we should be limiting businesses to doing business at a scale they can responsibly handle. If you can't get human customer service for your computer issues because Windows and Mac have scaled far beyond the number of users they could ever hope to handle, maybe that market needs regulation, and unless they scale customer service accordingly, they don't get to target a majority of the world's population as their customer base?
That'd certainly create jobs and opportunities for Linux and induce a revolution in software markets, and it'd limit the incentives for MS and Apple and big tech to do shitty things to suppress the markets overall.
It's also already unlawful to steal another company's assets when you leave. Besides, companies should file provisional patent applications as soon as they invent valuable proprietary technology to prevent the sort of subject matter leakage you mention.
Every time a pro-worker bill passes, there's an endless scree of "But what about the corporations?". Wow it's tiring.