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Posted by novaRom 6 days ago

Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom(undark.org)
902 points | 432 commentspage 3
Temporary_31337 5 days ago|
I know it's brutal, but my kids were raised with iPads, PS3-5, computers, age inappropriate Minecraft and youtube, all kids of gadgets and turned out ok, already earning money (in tech of course) - one is in UX / product building, another more on the core math/theorem side. Protecting kids from tech is like raising your kids in a glass house, yes they are fine while inside but then what?
saint_fiasco 5 days ago||
Your kids were raised on those before predatory people and unscrupulous corporations learned how to take advantage of them at scale.

To protect against those, you have to make kids super-early adopters like yours, make them use tech that is ahead of the curve relative to the mass market, or go the other direction entirely and have them a couple of levels behind the curve so they are not targeted.

FarmerPotato 5 days ago||
It's great that your kids had none of the issues reported.

Others have had lives disrupted by addiction.

andrepd 6 days ago||
Screens and computers are incredibly useful in education when they are used for some concrete purpose. Just think about how incredibly useful it is to use Desmos or Manim to explain certain mathematical concepts, as opposed to chalk on blackboard or print on paper.

Replacing a paper book with the same pdf on an ipad screen though, has to be one of the most stupid ideas anyone could come up with.

knowaveragejoe 5 days ago|
This is all downstream of the backlash against social media and AI, and it's attacking the symptom rather than treating it IMO. You don't need to abandon digital tools entirely, you need to control how they're used in the classroom.

Not every kid can learn concepts just by having them explained verbally or with simple, inanimate diagrams. Desmos etc were incredibly valuable for unlocking certain concepts.

Also, you can't ctrl+f a textbook. Sure, you might find what you're looking for in an appendix or ToC.

johanneskanybal 6 days ago||
It sounds good on paper (pun intended) but policy strikes again, "Can my kid bring home her math book so we can work on the parts she's struggling with?" No of course not it lives in a cupboard at school 90% of the time might get some screen shares from it.
kleiba 6 days ago||
Interesting. Where we currently live, kids carry all books back and forth between home and school every day in giant backpacks.
galdauts 6 days ago||
Back when I went to school in Germany, we had a locker at school, but I just took the books I needed for assignments home with me. I haven't heard of schools that don't let you take (loaned) books home.
elminjo 6 days ago|||
this is a problem. we make photos of the pages. i think there should be always a digital option when you have a physical book.
MSFT_Edging 6 days ago|||
It sounds like the major issue here is the access to information. It's not the fault of the medium but rather the IP rights around it. Books are expensive because the text book industry needs their cut. Schools need to protect the expensive books because children can and will impulsively throw one off a bridge on their walk home.

The digital editions are restricted due to IP, so you can't have an infinitely copyable version for reference at home to solve the issue of children being destructive sometimes. So you end up with the worst of both worlds.

We could theoretically teach kids to convert cubits to feet and give them a translated version of the same ancient egyptian geometry textbooks used to educate the architects of the pyramids. Triangles aren't new. Why has there not been an opensource/creative commons math textbook made available to all schools with a issues board for crowd sourcing correctness?

This could be done with discrete periods of history, sciences, math, etc. We really don't need the McGraw Hill 2026 Florida Patriot's edition of the 18th century American history textbook.

zozbot234 5 days ago||
Open content textbooks are widely available, it's just a matter of adoption by the students.
MSFT_Edging 5 days ago||
> it's just a matter of adoption by the students.

I don't think it's the students who are signing textbook deals.

fastasucan 5 days ago|||
Or every student have the books they need, and are free to bring them home.
signa11 6 days ago||
why not just buy 2 sets ? problem solved ?
tsoukase 5 days ago||
The luckiest were us that got into adulthood during the 90's. Traditional studying at school and full digital afterwards. The last generation. That's the cause of the reverse Flynn effect: diminishing IQ of 18-yo's after 1995.
insane_dreamer 5 days ago||
100% support this. Computers in school -- except at specific times for specific purposes -- are a distraction. My teen told me he and his friends were watching Hulu in class on their Chromebooks because while the school district had locked down access to Netflix, Disney, etc., they forgot Hulu :/ The students also figured out ways to share links to game sites by using shared Google docs and using URLs that bypassed the school's controls.

The huge drop in scores during the pandemic, during which everyone switched to edTech, is pretty strong evidence that in classroom education is essential at the lower grades in particular.

bentt 5 days ago||
I support this. Having a boundary around tech is a great asset for a growing mind.

At the same time, get your kids a computer early so they can learn the basics. Maybe even keep it off the internet.

Skip phones and tablets altogether for as long as possible.

schnitzelstoat 6 days ago||
I think it's better to use books and not have so many distractions in the classroom.

But equally it's really helpful to be able to ask ChatGPT or whatever for a different explanation when you get stuck - but that is probably better done at home when studying the homework. It stops you getting frustrated and helps keep you making progress and in the 'flow state'.

I guess a big problem for schools now will be how to get them to use AI to help them learn rather than simply getting it do to their homework so they can go and play video games or whatever. I know if I'd had it as a kid I would've been tempted to do the latter.

nalekberov 6 days ago||
> But equally it's really helpful to be able to ask ChatGPT or whatever for a different explanation when you get stuck - but that is probably better done at home when studying the homework. It stops you getting frustrated and helps keep you making progress and in the 'flow state'.

Yeah sure, then get a (sometimes) wrong answer with high confidence and believe it?

schnitzelstoat 6 days ago||
It's quite rare that it gives a wrong answer nowadays. Even more so if you ask it to use the internet etc.

But yeah, it's not infallible and sometimes even when it gives you a source it will incorrectly summarise it, but you can double check the information in the source itself.

It just makes it a lot easier to do quickly rather than having to go and find the right Wikipedia article or dig through lots of documentation. Just like Wikipedia and online docs made it easier than having to go to the library or leaf through a 500-page manual etc.

Gigachad 6 days ago||
Only if you are asking surface level questions. There are also certain topics that seem to be worse than others. For asking about how to do things in software guis modern LLMs seem to have a high rate of making up features or paths to reach them. For asking advice in games I've seen an extremely high rate of hallucinations. Asking why something is broken in my codebase has about a 95% hallucination rate.

If you are just asking basic science questions or phone reviews then its pretty reliable.

knowaveragejoe 5 days ago|||
> Only if you are asking surface level questions.

I find it pretty accurate well beyond that level. How much of that is actually a problem in K-12 education?

schnitzelstoat 5 days ago|||
I've used it for languages and studying some reinforcement learning stuff, including examples in PyTorch. I haven't had many problems with it really.

Once when I asked it some questions about a strategy game (Shadow Empire) it got them wrong, but the sources it cited had the correct information.

tgv 6 days ago|||
Why do you think children will learn anything from a remark on a specific problem? If it were that simple, teaching would be easy. (Notice that teaching smart kids is easy).

Much of education requires making errors until you get it right a few times in a row, and paying attention of the errors. Getting an explation of your errors is only part of that process. No LLM can provide the rest of it.

rimliu 6 days ago||
using AI for education is one of the worst ideas for education.
Jbird2k 5 days ago||
I don’t teach in a public school but we use tech to a very limited extent in my k-9 school grades 7-9 will be taking a computer skills course next year. We currently teach touch typing to grades 8 and 9. Everything else is pencil and paper. I think present day children are exposed to tech in non productive way ie mobile devices.

The number of kids who don’t know how to operate a mouse and keyboard is wild. Things like double clicking are quite difficult for some. It’s quite interesting honestly.

goldylochness 6 days ago||
absolutely the right move, use books for learning. i would still use computers for building ie coding, but absolutely not entertainment, not "learning to use microsoft word"
marysminefnuf 3 days ago|
It bothers me as a teacher why so few people care what i have to say. Why are we being lectured about techs role in my classroom. That should be a decision between me and the students and their parents.
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