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Posted by naves 1 day ago

Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold(www.jsnover.com)
See also https://x.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542 (https://xcancel.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542)
792 points | 559 commentspage 11
anthk 1 day ago|
OLE objects are just like disk images.
fassssst 1 day ago||
It’s web. Just use electron or Tauri.
SkunFly 1 day ago||
The slop image at the end made not read anything in this article.
furyofantares 1 day ago||
> Dead silence. One person suggested WPF. Another said WinUI 3. A third asked if they should just use Electron. The meeting went sideways and we never did answer the question.

> That silence is the story.

These LLMs are just awful at writing.

super256 1 day ago||
I felt fatigued after the second paragraph. All these LLM tropes chained together are horrible to read.
stinkbeetle 1 day ago|||
Yes they really do a great job at mimicking awful human writing of that horrendous style, whatever it's called. Post-TED NPR style bougie blogging let's say.
operatingthetan 1 day ago|||
This site needs a no LLM submissions policy too.
grg0 1 day ago||
I flagged the post, don't even care how accurate it is. Go send your AI slop to /dev/null, folks.
lynndotpy 14 hours ago||
I think you should look at the graphic. It's riddled with inaccuracies and nearly-unreadable spelling mistakes and mangled typography. I think that's plenty of a good reason to flag it.

I think it really abuses the assumption of good faith and the default to generous interpretation, because it forces you to divorce the author from their own published work in order to view them seriously. I suspect most of the comments here are generously ignoring the included graphic. But in the most generous view possible, the author is fine with publishing wildly inaccurate statements.

I think this makes HackerNews much worse, and posts like these should only be flagged.

skolskoly 16 hours ago|||
I was weathering the excessive and confusing analogies and then I read:

>introduced a level of cognitive complexity that makes Kierkegaard read like Hemingway.

and I fucking lost it.

c-c-c-c-c 1 day ago||
that part really didn’t make sense to me. This is true for all desktop platforms.
furyofantares 1 day ago||
I agree, although I was talking about:

    Dead silence. Here's what 3 people said (the opposite of silence). Then the meeting went sideways (also the opposite of silence).

    The silence is the story.
WHAT SILENCE?
lynndotpy 14 hours ago|||
In a more generous interpretation, there was silence, _then_ people said something. That makes sense.

But "That silence is the story." is still a pretty telling non-sequitr, and it doesn't seem like the kind that comes from sloppy editing.

The punchy "Thing. Thing. Thing." is used constantly. We see it constantly in this article:

> 852 pages. Win16 API in C.

> Message loops. Window procedures. GDI.

> One OS, one API, one language, one book.

But those are minor sins. But in the end of the article, Snover states that Microsoft pitched C++ in 2012. That's so incorrect! The contents of this blog post are at least partially falsified.

Plus, the thesis statement is nonsense:

> When a platform can’t answer “how should I build a UI?” in under ten seconds, it has failed its developers. Full stop.

"Full stop" is a pretty heavy thing to end a nonsense statement with. How an inanimate software platform can "answer" things is not implicitly obvious, either. Is it a human representative? Are they the docs? Is it through a good UI?

The post is about Petzold's / Reccold's "Programming Windows", but it is apparently 852 pages, so that certainly wasn't answered in under 10 seconds either.

avazhi 1 day ago|||
He immediately said they never did make a decision, so probably that indecision.

Having said that, this article feels like AI slop to me. Couldn’t get through it.

g-b-r 1 day ago||
Just have a look at the final picture if you're unsure if it's slop
hluska 19 hours ago||
Oh hey look, another chance for HN to dunk on Microsoft. I’m sure there will be some fresh new perspecti…oh darn, it’s just a rehash of the exact same snark the last time HN had a chance to dunk on Microsoft.

I’m not sure what Microsoft can possibly do when the closest thing to a collection of power users is this painfully repetitive.

zac23or 14 hours ago||
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nightrate_ai 1 day ago||
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eviks 1 day ago||
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politelemon 1 day ago||
This is a problem with all the OSes.
antiframe 1 day ago|
I disagree. KDE and Gnome both have pretty consistent UI strategies. You may or may not like them but they have clear identities and design guidelines and follow them.
hulitu 1 day ago||
GTK1, GTK2, GTK3, GTK4, GTK5. Qt1, Qt2, Qt3, Qt4, Qt5.
antiframe 12 hours ago||
Yes, those are all different versions of the underlying widget frameworks. I don't understand your point. My current GUI is KDE Plasma 6.6. The only libraries I have installed are Qt 6 (which I am not sure why you didn't list). I have no need for version 5 or 4, or any other. The GUI is consistent.

When I last used Windows, on a fresh install, I saw a mixture of different frameworks used for core OS components from the same vendor.

When I last used OS X, it was pretty consistent but I hear complaints from friends that its no longer the case.

dataflow 1 day ago|
WPF was atrocious from the beginning and Microsoft absolutely did the right thing by not basing everything in Windows on it.

Every WPF program was laggy and took ages to even start up (is everyone forgetting hard disk speeds?), partly due to it being managed code. The components didn't feel native either, and the coupling to managed code and garbage collection basically ensured all those would be perpetual issues. Yeah the programming model was beautiful and all, but you're supposedly developing to make your customers happy, not to make yourself or computer scientists happy.

You can see how terrible it would've been to base Windows's shell on WPF by looking at how much users have loved the non-Win32 windows since then.

tonyedgecombe 1 day ago|
I’m not sure I would blame the problems of WPF on managed code. After all we had snappy WinForms applications before WPF came along.
dataflow 20 hours ago||
Kind of yes, kind of no:

- WinForms applications also took visibly longer to load than Win32. I didn't dread loading them nearly as much as WPF, yes, but I still did. They weren't what I'd call "snappy", but they were... usable enough.

- WinForms also stuttered (in my experience) with the GC. Again, not "snappy" in my experience, but this was more dependent on your use case.

- WinForms were .NET 2.0 rather than .NET 3.0, with fewer modules to load. It certainly felt more lightweight, which from my memory (of how the hard disk behaved) correlated with that.

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