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Posted by naves 1 day ago

Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold(www.jsnover.com)
See also https://x.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542 (https://xcancel.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542)
759 points | 545 commentspage 4
supliminal 1 day ago|
There’s a poster on here who keeps posting and re-posting about their dinner with a Microsoft executive and how they were told Microsoft is all-in on enterprise. Waiting for that copy-paste to make its way over here.

Microsoft keeps footgunning things so hard I think even enterprise might be reluctant to go with them moving forward [0]. I don’t have Netcraft numbers in front of me but I doubt things have notably improved even if they do have a strategy shift to enterprise which includes crapping all over Windows for no good reason.

I’m personally glad FOSS is going strong but that’s a complete aside.

[0] We got burned by Azure as I’m sure many other enterprises have, and they did exactly nothing to remedy/compensate the situation, SLAs be damned. At this point our strategy is to move off of reliance on any Microsoft/windows tech. We moved off of ActiveDirectory not too long ago. Bing/Edge/etc honestly who cares.

mapontosevenths 1 day ago|
Microsoft was so focused on the enterprise they forgot that enterprises are made up of individual users.

Any trade-off that favors the enterprise in lieu of the user actually benefits nobody in the long term.

nine_k 22 hours ago|||
Crucially, at enterprise sales, those who make putchase decisions are not the actual users (except maybe for Outlook and Excel). They sometimes play golf together with vendors though. This is how stuff like MS Teams of Oracle Forms gets sold: it checks all the compliance boxes, has support, an SLA, "is industry strength", etc.
ProfessorLayton 5 hours ago||
This is true until it isn't though. Blackberry was doing great with enterprise users until people refused to give up their iPhones even at work.
mohamedkoubaa 1 day ago|||
The end state of genAI is that the end user is the enterprise
Krssst 23 hours ago||
The end state of genAI could as well be a few billionaires being their enterprise and everybody else being unemployed or working at the factory. Robots are not there yet (far from it) and someone needs to build and maintain the thing as well as food for everyone. High unemployment could drive salaries down and make lots of thing unavailable to the common people while making humans cheaper than automation for boring manual work.

That's an extreme scenario but today's politicians are not very keen into redistribution of wealth or prevention of excessive accumulation of economic power leading to exceeding the power of the state itself. I see nothing preventing that scenario from happening.

sph 16 hours ago|||
> High unemployment could drive salaries down and make lots of thing unavailable to the common people while making humans cheaper than automation for boring manual work.

‘I wanted a machine to do the dishes for me so I could concentrate on my art, and what I got was a machine to do the art so now I’m the one doing the dishes’

mikkupikku 13 hours ago||
But you already have a machine that can do the dishes. Like doing the laundry, people forget the machines they already have doing 90% of the work. Soon enough artists will forget that computers can do 90% of their work too.
exe34 17 hours ago|||
The French will lead the way.
Krssst 9 hours ago|||
The French are on their way to put a far-right government in power next year, don't count on them.
mapontosevenths 12 hours ago|||
I imagine that the rabble will need to eat only a few before the rest catch on.
jeswin 20 hours ago||
Microsoft's biggest mistake was .Net being a Java competitor when it should have just been like golang producing native binaries. Especially since .Net was realistically only going to succeed on x86/64 at that point (late 90s and 2000s). This shut the door on C# for consumer UIs, and people stuck to Visual Basic and MFC.

It took them more than 2 decades to finally support pure native binaries (via NativeAOT). And it's fantastic for servers on Linux.

donatj 19 hours ago||
The problem was in the early 2000s it was basically accepted x86 was a dead end whose days were numbered.

Itanium was the heir apparent but importantly basically vaporware. How do you develop software NOW and more importantly sell and ship software NOW that'll work on a CPU you don't have access to and for which good compilers don't really exist yet? I remind you in the days where online updates were a luxury at best.

Processor agnostic CIL/JIT code was the prescribed solution at the time. Java had lit the way, and it was the only "clear" path forward for better or worse.

Little did we know Itanium would implode, and x86-64 would rise and give 20+ more years of binary compatibility.

randomfool 19 hours ago||
They were recovering from all of the security fiascos of software that wasn’t being updated. So they pushed as much as they could into the core libraries and forced only one version to be installed at a time- so they could easily push security fixes.

This led to one of the trickiest things for early .NET consumer apps- getting the latest runtime installed.

HumblyTossed 1 day ago||
I very much dislike WPF. If I have to do a windows UI (and usually when I do it's a simulator for some piece of hardware), I honestly just grab WinForms. It's stupid simple.
Surac 10 hours ago|
Same here. Also the benefit of a visual Editor in Visual Studio is just Premium. Windows.forms also allow all those „modern“. Takes on ui either with ownerdraw or some grids/hand layouting.
binarymax 1 day ago||
Given how bad windows has become since windows 7, I’ve been wondering. Does Bill Gates still use Windows? Does he put up with the horribleness?
pragmatic 21 hours ago||
The guy getting std’s from Russian girls who Warren Buffet doesn’t talk to anymore.

That Bill Gates?

Seems he might have other priorities these days?

markus_zhang 1 day ago|||
I think Bill pretty much chilled out since he stepped down?
Maxatar 1 day ago|||
I just looked into this a bit because I thought he still had some kind of role at Microsoft even after leaving as CEO/chairman, but it turns out that in 2020 he left any and all positions at Microsoft as it was investigating him over inappropriate sexual relationships he had with Microsoft employees.

Before that he had a role as a technical advisor and sat on the board of directors.

I also found it interesting that Steve Ballmer owns considerably more of Microsoft than Bill Gates (4% for Steve Ballmer while Bill Gates owns less than 1%).

aaztehcy 19 hours ago||
[dead]
binarymax 1 day ago||||
Yeah of course. He has nothing to do with Microsoft operations or strategy. But does he still use the products?
seanmcdirmid 1 day ago|||
He still visits Microsoft occasionally. A friend showed me a picture of him visiting Microsoft in Beijing a few months ago (he was excited about BillG visiting). So my guess is that he still has an interest in Microsoft products.
throwaway132448 1 day ago|||
I couldn’t know, but generally speaking, older billionaires don’t typically interact with the world in the same way most of us do (well, those without a social media addiction anyway). The device is someone else’s problem.
cjbgkagh 1 day ago||||
He’s still around as a part time advisor, he has to officially step back or no one would take Satya seriously, but on important stuff like AI he is a bit more active.
calvinmorrison 1 day ago|||
He's mostly been hanging with Epstein and asking for people to buy him STD medication due to his endless trysts
Surac 10 hours ago|||
No im sure he uses linux or osx. Everyone uses this since windows phone was killed
bossyTeacher 1 day ago||
If he doesn't use Windows, you won't hear about it. And if you hear that he uses Windows, it might not be true. He loses nothing by denying it. If it worked for his friendship with Epstein, it will work here.
bob1029 15 hours ago||
Winforms is still compelling to me. Now that we have WebView2, building complex hybrid apps is trivial. I know I could easily go pure web, but something about having proper native chrome feels better as a user. All of my clients/users are on windows so I stopped fighting this battle years ago. I've recently been using .NET10 + Winforms + WebView2 to build custom ai assistants for others. I cannot imagine how much it would suck to iterate the presentation of a conversation history in pure win forms. The hybrid stuff is crazy productive.
Surac 1 day ago||
Today i still use C# with Windows.Forms. All my old knowledge is still usefull. People know how to use a Windows.Forms program.
grebc 1 day ago|
It’s great, some vendors have fantastic component libraries for reasonable prices.

Unreal that MS bet the farm in Windows on so many other turds instead of boring old WinForms/Win32.

amai 11 hours ago||
To quote Steve Jobs: "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products. "
cosmotic 1 day ago||
This is what happens when one's performance is measured by "impact".
moochamerth 7 hours ago||
A couple of years ago I played a bit with Go and Win32.

I got to the point that I could create windows and controls, and had a basic message loop working.

I then started dabbling in painting in non-client areas. It was buggy and didn't work well (my fault), but then I could see 2-3 different Windows UI styles competing to draw the window chrome.

The amount of crumbs hidden under the Windows carpet is incredible.

Retr0id 23 hours ago|
A decade or so ago, I had a clear idea of what a "native ui" should look and feel like, even if there were multiple routes to get there. I don't know any more.
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