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Posted by naves 1 day ago

Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold(www.jsnover.com)
See also https://x.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542 (https://xcancel.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542)
772 points | 550 commentspage 6
psychoslave 1 day ago|
Microsoft itself is a business driven by a consistent strategy of striving for market dominance no matter the means. looking for coherence in the resulting DX is missing the forest for the tree.
fg137 1 day ago||
Worth mentioning a discussion on a similar blog post two weeks ago;

Windows Native App Development Is a Mess

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47475938

rwmj 18 hours ago||
Petzold is a legendary programmer. His book Code is worth reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code:_The_Hidden_Language_of_C...
avmich 21 hours ago||
MS Windows is walking joke for at least a decade, UI consistency isn't it biggest problem. Unfortunately both Linux and MacOS have their own deeply seated issues. This leaves users in an unenviable situation and encourages experimenting, with AI encouraging more and faster attempts. When AI are getting better... I hope this question will become unimportant sooner rather than later.
redbell 17 hours ago||
This 2018 video from TechAltar discusses the same topic: Why Microsoft Can't Design A Consistent Windows (https://youtu.be/hn5QjtpjW_U)
segphault 1 day ago||
It's bad enough that Microsoft doesn't have a satisfying answer to this question, but what makes it worse is that WinUI feels weirdly non-native in ways that sort of uncomfortably result in Electron apps feeling more like real Windows applications.

It's worth noting though that Apple is on a similar trajectory and is now in a very nearly as bad position given all the serious issues with SwiftUI and how badly it has fragmented/degraded Mac desktop application development.

It's almost like the major desktop platform vendors have all given up on supporting high-quality native desktop applications.

GeekyBear 1 day ago|
> It's worth noting though that Apple is on a similar trajectory and is now in a very nearly as bad position given all the serious issues with SwiftUI and how badly it has fragmented/degraded Mac desktop application development.

Apple (and Next before it) have been iterating on Appkit/UIKit for three and a half decades.

Now they have added SwiftUI as a second option and have been iterating on it for a bit over half a decade.

This is in no way similar to Microsoft creating and abandoning another UI framework every couple of years.

If Microsoft had been steadily improving Win32 all these years, where would it be today?

teyc 1 day ago||
The web revolution is to Windows UI what vibe coding is to programming today. It brought in a massive group of people who didn't need to understand message pumps, or handles or non-blocking api calls. On top of that, it delivered incrementally more capable result each year. View source taught millions how to build modals, blurred overlay. Meanwhile, the old group of programmers were still worrying about how to protect the knowhow behind compiled languages.
bigstrat2003 22 hours ago|
I agree with the thesis of your post, but where we differ is that I think both of those were (are) bad things. Both web apps and vibe coding are causing the market to be flooded with low quality software, not only making the market worse but also giving future generations fewer examples of well-made software to look up to.
OptionOfT 1 day ago||
Case in point after Edge updated this morning:

https://imgur.com/a/dWp5Ohj

Did they even try to make it look like the new context menus?

okanat 1 day ago|
Well, Edge is Chromium. They need to maintain a hard fork, not just a reskin with a bunch of Microsoft webpages and adware. Chromium basically allocates a window and completely draws everything inside using DirectX APIs including menus.
anarticle 8 hours ago|
Programming Windows is THE authoritative source on Win32 programming: https://www.charlespetzold.com/books.html

It is a fantastic book, I learned everything I know on Win32 from it. Wrote real time scientific software in windows for ~10y! We did it all, external hardware control, custom UIs, etc. Thanks Ryan Geiss for your timing info.

Right about VC6 was the sweet spot imo, C/C++ with lightning fast UI for docs and more. Tools got out of the way. Once other languages got involved (C#?) the docs got out of control and harder to use, and the UI started to get a little overloaded.

The snappiness of those old windows systems was pretty great.

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