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Posted by naves 1 day ago

Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold(www.jsnover.com)
See also https://x.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542 (https://xcancel.com/stevesi/status/2036921223150440542)
782 points | 552 commentspage 9
sharts 1 day ago|
This will never change. All large orgs are this way because at the end of the day, unless its preventing them from making profits, there is no incentive to change it.

Moreover, there isn’t much in the way of alternatives. Everyone likes to hate on MS —for decades this has happened and nothing came of it.

TazeTSchnitzel 1 day ago||
I'm not sure I can take such an article seriously if it doesn't mention that the WinRT/UWP/WinUI stack is also based on XAML, and that a fundamental design goal of WinRT was to let people use either C++ or C# according to taste.

Also, the AI smell in this article is just too much.

dinkumthinkum 1 day ago||
Anyone else sit through one of those Microsoft "Project Reunion" and wonder "what the hell is even this?" Microsoft has had a completely confusing UI strategy for years.
damnitbuilds 14 hours ago||
Good tech solutions need ONE champion.

Jobs, Musk, Edison, whoever.

Someone who will enforce their design decisions, get stuff done. And take the hit when they are wrong.

petermcneeley 14 hours ago||
Talk about UI without pictures!
zer0zzz 1 day ago||
Couldn’t someone do a similar story about scripting on windows, and make Jeffrey Snover one of the punchlines?
dev1ycan 1 day ago||
Starting with Metro every Windows UI framework has been beyond ugly. there's just something so backwards over how nice the UI was in Windows 7, I simply can't understand it.
lunar_rover 1 day ago|
Metro was created partly to run smooothly on cheap Atom tablets and Windows Phones. Then Microsoft shifted their focus elsewhere and iOS 7/OS X Yosemite happened so they have all the reasons to stay flat.

Updated apps look fine, but the majority aren't. And with that bizarre "Show More Options" nesting in the Windows 11 context menu it almost seemed like Microsoft is no longer capable of upgrading old components in place.

dangus 17 hours ago||
IDK, it kind of sounds like from the article's own prose that Project Reunion / WinUI 3 is an overall good thing and that Microsoft actually does have a pretty good vision for the past 5 years at least.

From a user's perspective, I don't really see where the problem is. All my apps look like Windows apps to me, and I also think that includes apps that do their own thing and look their own way. For as long as Windows has been around we've had apps that just don't follow the rules, from RealPlayer to WinZip to iTunes to Spotify.

This idea that all applications must be consistent with each other on one platform is generally a good idea but the downside of not having it that way is not very tangible to most users.

E.g., Steam looks different than every other Windows app. Same with Spotify and Slack and Discord. How does that negatively impact users? Well, not really at all. The consistency is within those apps themselves. I'm comfortable with Steam because I've been using it for 20 years and it's evolved on its own terms.

I could see it being an accessibility problem, but can't figure out any other potential downside.

I also don't think any other platforms have this figured out. See the window corners in macOS Tahoe. Remember how Mac Catalyst apps first looked when that came out? They didn't follow OS conventions at all. Remember when Final Cut Pro 6 didn't look anything like a Mac app? Or GarageBand etc. and their skeuomorphic looks? Linux is no better with a mix of desktop environments, Wayland versus Xorg, etc. Then we look at mobile apps and it's one of the least consistent environments imaginable: you've got a mix of native and frameworks like React Native and Flutter and the rest.

2OEH8eoCRo0 17 hours ago||
They have a strategy of adding as many dumb slow abstractions as possible so the multi trillion dollar company can minimize the devs on their payroll.
api 1 day ago|
Nobody really has. Apple comes the closest but they keep rug pulling it in weird ways.

Windows and Mac in the 90s had very consistent GUIs with such consistency in things like keyboard shortcuts that apps could easily be learned. The term “intuitive” was king in the realm of UI design.

Then the web hit and all that died.

antiframe 1 day ago|
Not nobody. KDE has a functional and consistent GUI.
DrinkyBird 21 hours ago|||
KDE has the newer QML-based Kirigami and older Qt Widgets frameworks that are not consistent. Widgets apps absolutely look like actual desktop apps (menus, toolbars, dialogs), Kirigami apps look like mobile apps (nav bars, hamburger menus, page-based navigation). There is definitely a visual and functional inconsistency between the two, even if they use the same theme pretty well.
lunar_rover 1 day ago||||
The problem with things from the Linux world is that they never reached the height of commercial desktops to begin with.

If you really enjoy worse Windows XP UX with hamburger menus in recent versions then by all means go ahead, it does function.

antiframe 9 hours ago||
I thought we're not discussing whether we like one UI over another but whether an OS's UI was (internally) consistent. You may dislike KDE, but it uses it's design language all throughout the UI from window manager, the application launcher, the settings dialog, everywhere. Windows famously has three (or more?) styles of control panel UI. You may prefer that, and to each their own, but it is inconsistent, which was the topic of this thread.
WesolyKubeczek 11 hours ago|||
Problem is, both Firefox and Chrome look out of place on it when you use a non-standard color scheme. Custom keyboard shortcuts won't work on Chrome. When you change a theme from light to dark and vice versa, both browsers like to have text in their UI stuck on the wrong color.

I could use Konqueror, I guess, but its ad blocking plugin (and plugins overall) seems to never have progressed much since KDE 2.

antiframe 9 hours ago||
Right, applications can break all sorts of UI consistency. But the question is: do the standard components that the vendor ships do it? I argue: KDE is consistent. I don't want my desktop UI to dictate how an app draws its UI (or games would be impossible).
lunar_rover 5 hours ago||
> But the question is: do the standard components that the vendor ships do it? I argue: KDE is consistent.

Well yes, I do agree with this. Internally it's mostly consistent, at least more so than Windows. Never analysed its UI structures though.

> I don't want my desktop UI to dictate how an app draws its UI (or games would be impossible).

As a platform, ensuring applications running on top of it stay consistent to varying degree is the job of the desktop/OS IMO. To what degree depends on the context, https://asktog.com/atc/principles-of-interaction-design/#con... is a great read.

Even games need it, missing input field features has plagued PC games for decades and can be crippling for input method users, Skyrim's console needs mods to support copy and paste. Custom mouse acceleration curves is the reason everyone disabled it, zero acceleration is the easiest way to make different games handle mouse input consistently.

A shame Linux isn't standardised enough.

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