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Posted by adrianhon 1 day ago

Sam Altman may control our future – can he be trusted?(www.newyorker.com)
1585 points | 640 commentspage 4
wolvoleo 4 hours ago|
https://archive.is/Cd0Yl
bootload 13 hours ago||
“By 2018, several Y.C. partners were so frustrated with Altman’s behavior that they approached Graham to complain. Graham and Jessica Livingston, his wife and a Y.C. founder, apparently had a frank conversation with Altman. Afterward, Graham started telling people that although Altman had agreed to leave the company, he was resisting in practice”

This statement rings true.

JL, PG has mentioned often, is his weapon to test the “people” integrity aspect of YC / Startups. It’s not lost on me both Altman and Thiel both associated with YC were useful short term only, highlighting how regular “character” evaluations are required at higher levels of responsibility.

jacquesm 12 hours ago|
I don't think they were useful at all. If anything they pulled down YCs up to that point stellar reputation.
argee 11 hours ago|||
At least two of YC's early (mid-aughts) "huge" successes come down to PG unilaterally (or with some help from JL) making some kind of "weird" call. AirBnB and Reddit come to mind. Even Stripe can be traced to him since he basically created the Auctomatic team (Patrick Collison's previous YC entry).

In other words, PG had the "knack" for sometimes encouraging the right weird thing. I'm not sure it's been the same since he handed off the reins, like any other formerly-founder-led company. Nowadays it really gives off the vibe of bean-counting and hype-chasing.

I don't think it's gotten quite as bad as this [0] article suggests, though.

[0] https://stanfordreview.org/is-yc-for-cowards/

bootload 11 hours ago|||
“Today’s news comes at an interesting time. Last week, Business Insider’s Jonathan Marino reported that YC is close to raising several billion dollars for a new fund, with the goal of possibly expanding its scope to later stage funding. It said it’s still in preliminary discussions for this new strategy, but if true, Thiel could definitely play a big role there.”

My recollection was Thiel was injecting cash, a money deal. [0] There was another less advertised play. An established path for the Thiel “Boy Wonder Fellows”. [1]

“In addition to founding PayPal and Palantir and being the first investor in Facebook, Peter has been involved with many of the most important technology companies of the last 15 years, both personally and through Founders Fund, and the founders of those companies will generally tell you he has been their best source of strategic advice. He already works with a number of YC companies, and we’re very happy he’ll be working with more.”

Guess who was involved in the Thiel / YC deal? [2] You are not the only one seeing this as a reputation hit for YC. [3] Even I, disconnected across the other side of the world could see this as an issue.

[0] https://www.inc.com/business-insider/peter-thiel-is-joining-...

[1] https://boingboing.net/2016/08/25/peter-thiel-y-combinator-f...

[2] https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/welcome-peter/

[3] https://qz.com/810778/y-combinator-has-no-problem-with-partn...

jacquesm 10 hours ago||
Having Thiel on board of YC would probably turn off a lot of potentially successful founders. Or maybe it's a way to select for those with a lack of ethics. Having Musk and Thiel visibly associated probably is good from a monetary perspective but it sends all kinds of bad signals.
latentframe 8 hours ago||
It’s less about trusting one person but more about the structure indeed AI is concentrating capital and compute and talent into a few hands so we’ve seen this before with railroads, oil, semiconductors. It brings innovation and also pricing power and political influence.
steve_adams_86 15 hours ago||
> Amodei, in one of his early notes, recalled pressing Brockman on his priorities and Brockman replying that he wanted “money and power.” Brockman disputes this. His diary entries from this time suggest conflicting instincts. One reads, “Happy to not become rich on this, so long as no one else is.” In another, he asks, “So what do I really want?” Among his answers is “Financially what will take me to $1B.”

I can't imagine having such uninspired thoughts and actually writing them down while in a role of such diverse and worthwhile opportunities. I'd like to ask "how the hell do these people find themselves in these positions", but I think the answer is literally what he wrote in his diary. What a boring answer. We need to filter these people out at every turn, but instead they're elevated to the highest peaks of power.

ks2048 13 hours ago||
It's not surprising. I made this comment on HN before, but if you follow him on Twitter, it's pretty remarkable - the CTO of one of the most important technology companies in the world and he has never (that I've seen) posted something with some technical insight, or just anything interesting about technology. It's just boring truisms, cliches, empty statements, etc.
chromacity 14 hours ago|||
Eh. It doesn't start or stop with people like Altman, Zuckerberg, or Nadella. I think it's a symptom of a broader problem in tech. Half the people on this site made a decision to work at companies that do shady things, and they did that to maximize personal wealth.

The difference isn't that the average techie doesn't dream of making a billion by any means necessary; it's that most of us don't think we have a shot, so we stick to enabling lesser evils to retire with mere millions in the bank.

skybrian 13 hours ago|||
I don't think it's all that hard to avoid working on anything shady. It's not as easy to avoid being associated with anything shady due to widespread cynicism and a tendency to treat tech companies with thousands of projects as a monolith.
bluefirebrand 13 hours ago||||
> The difference isn't that the average techie doesn't dream of making a billion by any means necessary

I hope that's not true. If it is, we live in a bleak world indeed.

I can confidently say I've never once dreamed of having billions. I've never wanted billions. Not even in a fanciful manner. What would I do with that money? Buy mansions and megayachts? That's loser stuff

Most of what I want out of life cannot be bought. The pieces that come with a price tag, like a comfortable home, do not require billions

I think only sociopaths want billions because they don't understand spending your life seeking things that actually matter, like family and human connection

ggregoire 13 hours ago|||
> The difference isn't that the average techie doesn't dream of making a billion by any means necessary

That's actually the difference, most people don't want a billion

azan_ 6 hours ago||
Yeah, sure…
kevinqi 14 hours ago|||
it is disappointing, but is it shocking that people most driven by gaining money/power are the ones the most successful at achieving it?
steve_adams_86 14 hours ago||
What sticks out to me most is that humanity consistently fails to weed these creatures out and regulate society. It's a bug in our social software; we seem to like these broken people rather than recognize that they're a liability.
sumedh 7 hours ago|||
Most people don't care as long as it does not affect them directly.
hackable_sand 13 hours ago||||
Trust is not a bug

You need to accept that every generation some people are going to try and fuck things up.

Then you get to decide to stop or help them

basket_horse 13 hours ago|||
This isn’t a bug. It’s the driving force of our capitalist society. We are not trying to weed them out. We are trying to encourage them. It’s pretty simple, when they get rich, so do all their investors.
dolebirchwood 15 hours ago|||
Sociopaths don't have much going for them in life other than winning status games.
buzzerbetrayed 15 hours ago|||
Sociopath is the next word that people seem to want to entirely destroy the meaning of
dolebirchwood 14 hours ago||
[flagged]
JumpCrisscross 14 hours ago||
> Struck a nerve?

No need to be petty. They have a point. We did this with the words racist and fascist. Overinclusion diluted the term and gave cover for the actual baddies to come in. I'm not sure debating who is and isn't a sociopath is as useful as, say, the degree to which Sam is a liar (versus visible).

Ucalegon 10 hours ago|||
Racism and fascism have been used correctly, its just that people do not like to be have their beliefs associated with negative things and thus, rather than perform self-reflection about themselves, instead the problem exists elsewhere. I am sure you can come up with outliers that prove what you are saying is true, but across the vast majority of applications of the use of both words they are correct relative to definitions of both words.
greenchair 13 hours ago||||
Speaking of overinclusion, 'wild' is my nominee for 2026 as I'm seeing it all over the place.
JumpCrisscross 11 hours ago||
> 'wild' is my nominee for 2026

I don't know how to define the delineation I'm about to propose. But there is a difference between overinclusivity trashing a morally-loaded, potentially even technical, term, and slang evolving.

rexpop 13 hours ago||||
I'm sorry, we did what with the word "racist"?
JumpCrisscross 12 hours ago||
> we did what with the word "racist"?

“Overinclusion diluted the term and gave cover for the actual baddies to come in.” The next sentence.

hnbad 4 hours ago||
While I agree that the word has been misused by some bad actors in the "Woke 1.0 era", it's worth pointing out that this isn't what most people complaining about the word being "diluted" are referring to as these are mostly people flat-out upset by any suggestion that they themselves might hold racist beliefs.

That said, anyone using "racist" as a noun isn't worth your time, nor is anyone who's genuinely upset about people calling concepts, systems or ideologies "racist".

Specifically, the "Woke 1.0 era" culture war arose from two conflicting meanings of the word "racist" largely aligning with two different segments of the population: 1) "racist" as a bad word you call people who are extremely bigoted against people along racial lines and 2) "racist" as a descriptor for systems and ideologies downstream from racialization (i.e. labelling people as racialized - e.g. Black - or non-racialized - i.e. "white") as a mechanism of asserting a power structure. "Wokists" would often conflate the two by applying the word as broadly as the latter definition necessitates while still attempting to use it with the emotional weight and personal judgement of the former definition.

I think a lot of this can be blamed on "pop anti-racism" just as a lot of the earlier "boys are icky" nonsense can be blamed on pop feminism because fully adopting the latter definition requires a critique of systems, which is much more dangerous to anyone benefiting from those systems than merely naming and shaming individuals. Anti-racism (and feminism) ultimately necessitates challenging hierarchical power structures in general and thus necessarily leads to anti-capitalism (which isn't to say all anti-capitalists are anti-racist and feminist - there are plenty of "anti-capitalist" movements that still suffer from racism and sexism just as there are "anti-racists" who hold sexist views or "feminists" who hold racist views). But you can't use that to sell DEI seminars to corporations and corporations can't use that to promote themselves as "woke" - as some companies like Basecamp found out when their internal DEI groups suddenly started taking themselves seriously during the BLM protests, resulting in layoffs and "no politics" policies and a general rightwards shift among corporate America leading up to and into the second Trump presidency (which reinforced this shift, resulting in the current state of most US corporations and their subsidiaries having significantly cut down on their previously omnipresent shallow "virtue signalling").

nixosbestos 10 hours ago|||
I would be curious to hear you expand on that, walk me through it, maybe a small paragraph to explain what over inclusion happened with the weird fascist, what baddies you're vaguely referring to, and connect those dots?
kakacik 14 hours ago||||
While true and we can see them literally everywhere where there is some money and/or power (even miniscule places like classic banks have easily 1/3 of the staff with clear sociopathic traits, I have to deal with them daily... or whole politics) - thats just human nature, or part of it.

Its up to rest of society to keep them in check since classic morals are highly optional and considered nuissance blocking those games. And here we the rest fail pretty miserably, while having on paper perfect tool - majority vote.

lokar 15 hours ago|||
Or, some fraction of otherwise good/normal people who “win” are turned into sociopaths by the power and sycophancy.
xorgun 14 hours ago||
[dead]
pharos92 15 hours ago||
We focus these critiques far too much on the face rather than the underlying mechanics. Just like in politics, we critique the personality/politician yet the underlying system architecture evades it.

Sam Altman clearly has a long history of nefarious activity. But the underlying threat posted by AI to society, the economy and human freedom persists with or without his presence.

chii 9 hours ago||
> underlying threat posted by AI to society, the economy and human freedom persists

I would deny that AI poses any such threat. There are actors who would use the tool in ways that threaten as you described, but that is a threat from said actor, not AI - unless you're claiming that an AGI would be capable of such independent actions.

AI is similar in transformative power to how the internet was a transformative power - might even be greater, if it is more commonly available for use through out the world. Whether that transformative power is doing good or bad really depends on the people doing it, not on the tech. I would bet that the future is going to be better because of AI, than to imagine a worse future and act to stunt the tech.

wolvesechoes 6 hours ago||
> I would deny that AI poses any such threat. There are actors who would use the tool in ways that threaten as you described, but that is a threat from said actor, not AI

Of course, it is popular to deny it. People constantly tell themselves "it is people, not tech". They make valid, yet banal and inconsequential statement. This distinction has no bearing on reality.

chii 5 hours ago||
So you're saying that if people hadn't invented weapons, there would be no violence?

The claim that AI is itself dangerous has no merit.

wolvesechoes 4 hours ago||
> So you're saying that if people hadn't invented weapons, there would be no violence?

If anything, if people hadn't invented weapons, they would not use weapons to enact violence, and this in turn will impact the practical nature of violence.

> The claim that AI is itself dangerous has no merit.

My claim is that considering any technology by itself is pointless. There is no such thing as thing by itself. Technology always exists in structural setting, and in turn shapes this structure.

j2kun 14 hours ago|||
Or perhaps, the underlying threat is personified by Altman, in that our country has repeated and widespread institutional failures to hold the wealthy accountable for wrongdoing.

The threat of AI is, after all, driven by the people who use it.

xgulfie 15 hours ago|||
It's because we only really know one economic system but we've known many people
kogasa240p 37 minutes ago||
>But the underlying threat posted by AI to society, the economy and human freedom persists with or without his presence.

Without Sam Altman the compute and improvements for LLMs to be a threat wouldn't have readily existed at all. He was the one who got the ball rolling because of his desperation (SVB collapsed right before the hype bubble started), ego, and quasi-religious desires.

6Az4Mj4D 14 hours ago||
I am in 40s and going to be made redundant this June. In future only people who can afford to keep things like Claude, OpenAI and most importantly create value using them more than what others can do be able to survive. Otherwise, game is more or less over, and I question what's next for my own future while I learn to use Claude in FOMO. I cannot trust Sam or others if they will have any interest to keep this tech affordable for common people like me.
cmiles8 4 hours ago||
It seems unlikely OpenAI can survive long term with Sam at the helm. Challenge is folks already realized that once and yet here we are.
mikkupikku 4 hours ago|
You come at the king, you best not miss. Unfortunately, having survived a coup, his odds of surviving the next have improved. Now he knows how they go, what to look for and how he might handle them. I wouldn't bet on him being kicked out, at least while OpenAI is still on top. If OpenAI stumbles and Anthropic or another starts to prevail, only then would I bet on Sam getting pushed out.
nextlevelwizard 3 hours ago||
"If I don't destroy humanity someone far worse will do it" -Sam Altman
Cthulhu_ 2 hours ago|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk
ycui1986 14 hours ago||
he won't. if anything, openai is falling behind recently. the trend won't change easily. it is like the old time Netscape.
innocenttop 20 hours ago|
Why is the story so downranked? Folks at HackerNews have something to do with it ?
dang 17 hours ago||
It off the flamewar detector, a,k.a. the overheated discussion detector. I've turned that off now - this is obviously a serious article.
randycupertino 20 hours ago||
HN generally downvotes and/or flags anything that paints ycombinator in a bad light. As Altman was president of yc from 2014 to 2019 that could be why this is getting downvoted.

Articles critical of Airbnb, one of yc's biggest wins, also get flagged and taken down.

dang 16 hours ago||
I'm not sure whether you meant this about moderator interventions or not, but our actual practice is the opposite:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

As those comments explain, this has been the #1 rule of HN moderation from the beginning. See also https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....

lovich 16 hours ago||
I don’t think the poster you responded to was claiming that moderators directly did this. The flagging system is open to bias from the community at large and certain types of articles(ex. Anything critical of the current admin) get a bunch of real users organically flagging them.
dang 11 hours ago||
Yes, it's hard to tell sometimes but I've at least learned not to automatically take these personally. Well, partly learned.

I don't think anyone familiar with this community would assume positive bias towards Sam, Airbnb, or even YC anymore - it's quite the contrary, from my perspective, but of course everyone notices different things and has their own view. Ditto for political slants.

lovich 11 hours ago||
I dont assume positive bias, but I do assume that most negative things that get people irked are removed as a result of the mechanics of the flagging system.

Like, I dont really expect puff pieces for ycombinator or the like to get artificially pushed to the top, but I do expect that enough people who are feel culturally or financially invested in ycombinator to flag negative things into oblivion, especially as its completely reasonable that the population of users here has a much higher percentage of those folk than any random population sampling.

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