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Posted by doctorhandshake 11 hours ago

What being ripped off taught me(belief.horse)
292 points | 166 commentspage 4
TheMagicHorsey 5 hours ago|
I don't know what it is about me, but I have a sixth sense for losers who will not pay. There's been a number of times where acquaintences have taken contracts I've turned down (against my advice too) and have not been paid. There's something about slick communicators that just activates my spidey sense.

And TBH, I have also had a few false positives. One contract I did not take (it was for a mix of equity and cash) turned into a 10B+ company, and I would have made enough to retire (again) on it over a 1-year contract. I didn't because the founder who called me just sounded completely clueless and was barraging me with marketing speak instead of explaining what he needed. I was so exhausted from his BS I just decided I didn't need the headache. (This is also a danger of having enough to retire ... you turn down a lot of potentially lucrative work because you just don't think the headaches are worth it).

In the grand scheme of things, other than that one big missed opportunity, I haven't missed too much upside by being so picky. And when I'm counseling colleagues about their unpaid contracts and conflicts, I'm always silently thanking the stars I have the luxury to say no. I know that's a priviledge.

jancsika 9 hours ago||
> The faith was that if they could’t pay, they’d let me know because I was actively digging their asses out of a hole they’d dug, and doing so tirelessly and professionally, without complaint.

I get what the author is saying here. But it's a bad idea to treat one's work team with deep communal devotion in this way, as if they are a kind of dysfunctional family-- or, in the author's case, apparently higher in status than real family.

Doing this without proper remuneration creates a market distortion, and that is bad for capitalism.

veunes 9 hours ago||
This reads less like a "got ripped off" story and more like a perfect storm of every classic consulting red flag showing up at once
TrackerFF 4 hours ago||
One thing I've learned from working in different fields, which seems to hold true for all business: If a client approaches you with a dumpster fire of a repair job, are too broke to get a real fix, and get agitated (or simply ignore) by the talk of what the job will cost - simply tell them "sorry, I can't help you with this one".

99 out 100 times they will be a hassle, and you'll be lucky if they pay you anything beyond the upfront payment.

Even worse if it is another business, as the author writes, those can just declare bankruptcy and walk away.

carlosjobim 10 hours ago||
There's no such thing as a company temporarily being in dire straits. These kind of companies are always in dire straits and crisis - it's a business tactic to not deliver and not pay. Just stay away, whether you're a customer, a contractor, an employee or if they want to be your customer.
fred_is_fred 10 hours ago||
He says "trust your gut" about 12 times, but the whole lead up has 0 mention that he was worried he would not get paid. His only gut feelings seemed to be around tech issues.
billnad 10 hours ago|
Yes, I guess also trust the situation when it looks completely wrong. your gut is not lying when it sees that as well
burnt-resistor 10 hours ago||
I was owed billable hours from Stanford University but refused to do any further work until the outstanding invoice was paid. Their accounts payable department didn't want to, so I had to tell the client "sorry" and walked away. It's really weird because I didn't have a problem in the near past then and was even an FTE at one point. I'm unwilling to work for free or for imaginary, low liquidation preference equity of a worthless startup.

Ordinarily, I would sign master agreements and set PO terms up-front. Typically, the better customers would agree to very strict requirements / objectives for a particular time period for a specific price. Any deviations would require negotiation. Hourly is fine too but there must be regular milestone deliveries so that there's demonstrable value for money being conveyed rather than an appearance of a milking-oriented consultant. Expectations must always be managed.

fontain 10 hours ago||
“A contract is toilet paper”

A little hyperbolic, but more accurate than not when laypeople think about contracts.

A contract isn’t a magic spell, it is a declaration of shared understanding that can be used for clarity and in legal proceedings.

If you think of a contract as a way to ensure you get what you agreed, yes, it is toilet paper, because a contract doesn’t remove counterparty risk.

blitzar 10 hours ago||
In a fight between a piece of toilet paper backed by millions in legal spending vs a rock solid contract backed by nothing -- the toilet paper (even if it is used toilet paper) will win every single time.
hermannj314 10 hours ago||
A piece of contract toilet paper is still better than a bare hand shake agreement.
balbladsaf1231 10 hours ago||
> A contract is toilet paper

no it isn't. why you did not sue them? success rate of international arbitrage (New York Convention) proces into China is 90% success rate. USA/EU companies who sue Chineses companies in China for breach of contract seem to be winning rates. Enforcement of USA curt orders do not need to go thorugh Chinese courts again, and are enforced by local authorities (local sharks) with success rate of 80% for foreign firms suing chinese firms. fees are also fairly low. case is straightfoward.

if author went and sue, likely he would get his money back.

LoganDark 10 hours ago||
> why you did not sue them?

Because they could just dissolve the entity and get away with it. Did you even read the rest of the article?

direwolf20 4 hours ago||
You can't do that and if you do do that it's an imprisonable felony. You have to pay all debts before dissolving a corporation. If you can't pay them you have to go through the bankruptcy process.
ctdinjeu4 8 hours ago||
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swiftcoder 9 hours ago|
> End clients can’t tell the difference between these bozos and me. I don’t know what to do with that information but it feels bad.

This is unfortunately all too common. It's hard for someone who isn't an expert in the specific field to separate a smooth grifter from a more typical sales pitch

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