Top
Best
New

Posted by ibobev 5 hours ago

Book review: There is no antimemetics division(www.stephendiehl.com)
141 points | 92 comments
throw4847285 2 hours ago|
This review is just a plot synopsis. There are no quotes from the book to give me a sense of the quality of the writing. The review feels targeted at somebody who is already bought into the premise, not somebody from the outside who wants to know if "There Is No Antimemetics Division" is a good book or not. In that sense, it totally fails as a book review.
mkeeter 12 minutes ago||
The review is also heavily LLM-inflected, to the point of being distracting.

GPTZero gives it a 100% chance of being AI generated, and I've found that these tools may give false negatives from a well-prompted model, but false positives are rare.

If you are looking to tune your intuition for AI-written text, here's an interesting list of their quirks (ironically provided as a Claude skill for removing those quirks from emitted text):

https://github.com/stephenturner/skill-deslop/blob/main/refe...

doug_durham 2 hours ago|||
I have never read a review and got a true notion of whether the prose is good or not. Is that really why you read reviews? I thought this was a great review because it very concisely described what is an unorthodox book. If you want to see if the prose is any good, read the book. It is a good book by the way.
throw4847285 2 hours ago|||
Yes, I read reviews to learn if a book is good or not. Quotes from the book that are carefully selected often help to showcase what the author is capable of, on top of a clear description of their writing style. I want the reviewer to sell me on what moved them.

That is different than whether or not the reviewer was compelled by the ideas in the book. If the reviewer is a good writer, then I've learned something. Then, I know that somebody who is a good writer thought the ideas in a book were interesting, which by the transitive property, implies the author being reviewed is also a good writer. In this case, I don't think the reviewer is a very interesting writer, so I'm not convinced that they are a good judge of interesting writing.

throwaway27448 2 hours ago||||
It sounds like you're describing a summary (which does not deal with quality) rather than a review (which necessarily deals with quality). The posted writing seems to fall somewhere in between.
pessimizer 1 hour ago||||
> If you want to see if the prose is any good, read the book.

I don't read complete plot summaries of books that I ever plan to read. That's why I look for "reviews." The only reason it's hard to write a review is because you can't give away the plot, but you have to give a sense of the appeal and the quality of the book. Otherwise, it's just a summary.

I can't know what books are available on the market through introspection. The only way I can know about them is through being informed. I don't want to read a complete plot summary of a book I have yet to read. If the only way I can find out about the existence of books is by having the plot spoiled, that's not optimal.

edit: Also, tbh, if a book's plot is good, I don't need you to tell it to me. The person who came up with the plot already carefully came up with the way they wanted to tell it to me. Not sure why you think you can do better if you think the book is good. If the book is awful to read but the plot is interesting, feel free.

> It is a good book by the way.

The reason this doesn't work as a review is because I don't know you, and I don't know what you like. If you can say this in a way in which it doesn't matter whether I know you or what you like, and give away the least plot possible to accomplish this, you've written what most people are looking for in a review.

satvikpendem 1 hour ago||
Agreed, and plot itself doesn't make a good book either. Some have very interesting plots but terrible prose and pacing while others are vice versa. Therefore a "review" that is merely a plot summary actually says nothing of the quality of the work.
satvikpendem 1 hour ago|||
If you say to just read the book then what's even the point of writing a review? I could say the same about any book which renders the advice meaningless.
satvikpendem 1 hour ago|||
I've noticed this too online and on YouTube, where "reviewers" conflate a plot summary with an actual review of the pros and cons and often deeper analysis of a work. These days I need to go to specific subreddits to get true reviews beyond surface level details, such as at r/TrueFilm.
wetpaws 34 minutes ago||
[dead]
cws 3 hours ago||
This article says “Book Review:” but then doesn’t provide the title of a book. I’m confused.

:)

nusl 4 minutes ago||
I suppose this joke only works when you've read it. I should take my meds, else I'll forget.
rtaylorgarlock 2 hours ago|||
It's in the title: "There is no Antimemetics Division" https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/54870256-there-is-no-ant...
davrosthedalek 2 hours ago|||
What title?
andrewla 2 hours ago|||
Why would you disagree with the parent post and then fail to provide the title of the book in your own response? Just give the name of the book, please.
zelias 2 hours ago|||
What book? There is no book discussed in this article
lukifer 55 minutes ago|||
What article? This is an HN-only discussion post.
swanson 2 hours ago|||
I tried making this joke to the author when the book was released ("I purchased the book, but the link just took me to an empty page") and, unfortunately, they didn't get it and tried to give me customer support
mcmcmc 28 minutes ago|||
Whoa, you mean bringing terminally online memes into the real world is awkward and cringe? How unexpected
rapnie 1 hour ago|||
What are you talking about? Did you perhaps cross-post by accident to the wrong thread?
nusl 3 minutes ago||
You're missing the joke entirely, which is fine because it's not obvious unless you've dipped your toes into the book itself, but still.
enopod_ 2 hours ago||
What article?
mjburgess 2 hours ago||
I dislike the ending, at least of v2. In it, the author basically gives a fleshed out (christian, neoplatonist) metaphysics to the world he's created which basically amounts to: heaven exists, humans win against the devil, etc. And the ending itself is a self-conscious version of an ascension narrative. It's a very 90deg turn ending to a book otherwise more interested in a world in which heaven is never accessible.
Insanity 1 hour ago||
The last 2 chapters made me not want to recommend the book. I’m so divided about it because the book started of incredibly strong.
mpalmer 2 hours ago|||
It's the strongest possible memetic weapon humans would have - I think it's entirely consistent with the meta-nature of the book, especially the self-conscious part.
mjburgess 2 hours ago||
If the take is religion is itself the weapon and the depiction given is mere evidence of that, OK, that's at least avoids the ending being totally awful. HOWEVER

The book spends much of its time saying the transcendent cannot even be represented, to people, to us the read -- then just represents it, and in a tawdry christian way.

I think the violation of that norm, as well as the ending being played straight -- with literally a long paragraph explaining with ideaspace is... that's a fourth-wall break into christianity imv

Which makes the whole book read as, "the issue with humans is our physical bodies in a fallen world which are limited. just die, go to heaven, then you can know/represent/understand everything. Yay! Death!"

OK. Just kinda naff.

It reads as a religious person who accidentally wrote a good sci-fi book then hurridly, at the end, reminds us all that its really a parable with a Noble Message that in Death all things are trascended.

doug_durham 2 hours ago||
I read the book and at no time did I think "Christianity". It seems like motivated reasoning on your part. At no time did the book ever preach, or was even moralistic.
mjburgess 2 hours ago||
I'm referring to the ending of the published version, which is quite different than v1, which ends abburptly, in particular the sections before and after:

> “She steps back from him. She flexes what could be wings.”

> “In ideatic space everything is possible and everything is real and every metaphor is apt. She sees a galaxy of shining points: people, all the people who have ever existed, packed almost densely enough to form a continuum, living and dead, real and fictional and borderline. Similar people, who think in similar ways and who stand for similar things, are closer together. Significant people, the famous and iconic, are brighter. There are stars for inanimate entities, too, and events and abstracts: countries, homes, works of art, births and first steps and words, shocks and dramas, archetypes, numbers and equations, long arcs of stories, grand mythologies, philosophies, politics, tropes. Every truth and lie is here. Ideatic space itself—the human conception of it, at least—is here too, a fixed point embedded inside itself. The idea of the Unknown Organization is here. The idea of Adam Quinn is here. Marie, rising, waking, is here. And occupying the same space as the first brilliant spiral is a second, its counterpart, a galaxy whose points are relationships between the points of the first: what each person means to each other person. Loves, mutual and unrequited; admirations, aspirations, intimidations, fears, and revulsions. Conceptions and misconceptions. There is Adam’s shining link with Marie, and Marie’s link back to Adam. And Marie’s link to the Organization. And at the core of the whole dazzling ecosystem is an ultimate singular point, to which every other point is connected: humanity.

> And the whole thing, the entirety of human ideatic space, is being torn apart. U-3125 hangs above it, a monumental, blinding new presence, a singular entity more massive and luminous than both spirals combined. Its malevolent gravity drags humanity and all human ideas into its orbit, warping them beyond recognition. Beneath it, within its context, everything becomes corrupted into the worst version of itself. It takes joy and turns it into vindictive glee; it takes self-reliance and turns it into solipsistic psychosis; it turns love into smothering assault, pride into humiliation, families into traps, safety into paranoia, peace into discontent. It turns people into people who do not see people as people. And civilizations, ultimately, into abominations.

> U-3125 is titanic in its structure, brain-breaking in its topology. It comes from another part of ideatic space, a place where ideas exist on a scale entirely beyond those of humans. Its wrongness and[…]”

> “She sets a course. Outbound, to the deepest limit of ideatic space.”

Etc. The references to U3125 incarnating, and it being The Adversary. And the explicit ascention narrative with Mary getting wings, flying thru clouds of Ideas -- which are actually animate and incarnated in this world, ie., they are souls. I mean, it's terribly misjudged ending

biophysboy 1 hour ago||
Is this book just riffing about embedding space? I thought about reading it eventually, but the quoted passage is kind of annoying/tedious
skeaker 50 minutes ago||
No, it really just gets like that at the end which is what this chain has been going over.
guzfip 1 hour ago||
> metaphysics to the world he's created which basically amounts to: heaven exists, humans win against the devil, etc. And the ending itself is a self-conscious version of an ascension narrative. It's a very 90deg turn ending to a book otherwise more interested in a world in which heaven is never accessible.

FWIW, this just seems to be what’s popular now. Pretty regularly now, I’ll see social media posts and memes mocking [media franchise X] for being anything other than that very basic good vs evil plot with clean resolution, as if these people didn’t have plenty of Marvel slop to consume.

I will say this is tangential to the culture war, but seems to exist outside of it too.

grimgrin 3 hours ago||
You can read the original here https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/antimemetics-division-hub

There is also the rough draft. I've only read the wiki and the first draft of book

Oddly I gifted the actual book away before reading it (I can buy it again, I thought)

pnw 59 minutes ago||
I read whatever version of this book was available to download in 2020 and really enjoyed it. Some very original ideas. I didn't find the writing clunky, and I read way too much.
kiddico 44 minutes ago|
I read it in chunks from the wiki and feel the same. Maybe I'm not a discerning reader but it stayed in the front of my mind for a good few days after.
krackers 12 minutes ago||
Are there any real-life examples of antimemes? How would antimemes even propagate given that they'd "die out" immediately?
nusl 1 minute ago|
If they did, we wouldn't know. Those that do/did know would be dead.
munificent 2 hours ago||
I liked this one a lot. If you like weird fiction and enjoyed Jeff Vandermeer's Annhilation, there's a good chance you'll like this.

If you don't like weird fiction, odds are you'll bounce off it.

Grambo 1 hour ago|
I loved the Southern Reach trilogy but didn't finish TINAD. I thought the premise was pushed too far and that less would've been more. OTOH the atmosphere of oppressive bureaucracy of Authority is still one my all time favorite scifi reads.
EliRivers 2 hours ago||
The core conceit lent itself so well to a (subverted) introductory "As you know" chapter that I didn't even notice it until I'd read it. Bravo for that alone.

That said, from the review: "open source maintainership as cosmic horror." Genuine laugh.

xnx 4 hours ago||
24 days ago: Sci-Fi Short Film “There Is No Antimemetics Division” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47363133
troupo 3 hours ago||
There's also a short web series which is very good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm3ywOKVBeAp1CmOhpsfu...

I haven't seen the short film, so cannot compare.

pavel_lishin 3 hours ago||
Really didn't like this adaptation.
scrumbledober 3 hours ago|
It's surely not a great book and if you are someone who reads a book every few months i wouldn't recommend it. It's very weird and different and fun, though. I suggest it for people who read a lot of sci-fi and are looking for something that doesn't feel the same as 10 other books they've already read.
tshaddox 3 hours ago||
I'm smack dab in that "reads a book every few months" demographic, and also in that "people who work with formal systems for a living" demographic mentioned in this book review.

I would absolutely recommend it for people in the vicinity of these two demographics. It's worth it for the originality. Both the plot and the storytelling format are very weird and very original.

chis 2 hours ago|||
Yeah my take is the exact opposite. It's such a page turner that the book has become one of my default recommendations for people looking to get back into reading. Of course you have to be a certain type of nerd to appreciate it.
More comments...