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Posted by ndr 7 days ago

I Made the "Next-Level" Camera and I love it(thelibre.news)
258 points | 73 comments
PaulHoule 7 days ago|
This lens

https://7artisans.store/products/50mm-f1-05

is a fantastic wide aperture lens which is commercially available, affordable and a great value. Personally I tend to get bored if I am walking around with a 50mm lens but with that lens, the challenge of manual focus, the ability to take photos with hardly any light, and the ability to take dreamy photos like people have never seen I have so much fun. They make it for all the major camera brands.

Overall I am impressed with Chinese lens manufacturers who make other lenses like

https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-9mm-f-5-6-ff-rl/

which again are a great value and let me take pictures you haven't seen before.

https://mastodon.social/@UP8/tagged/9mm

atombender 3 days ago||
Laowa (aka Venus Optics) makes a range of excellent macro lenses, too. I use the 65mm f/2.8 2x macro with my Fujifilm cameras, and supposedly it improves on even Fujifilm's famous 80mm macro in sharpness.

Another fun, small one is the Korean brand Samyang (also sold as Rokinon, Bower, and some other names). Their 12mm f/2.0 manual wide angle is excellent despite being quite cheap. Photos I take with it often get a unique look that I can't really explain.

walrus01 3 days ago|||
There have been significant advances in mainland china made scopes in the last 5-7 years as well. For instance the Arken EP5 5-25x56, 34mm tube first focal plane. Which until recent tariffs and things sold for around $400 to 500 USD shipped. No it's not as good as a $1299 or $2199 Vortex, but it's definitely not the junk-tier stuff that was completely disregarded by everyone who wanted something usable on a budget for >500 yards.
germinalphrase 3 days ago||
Sky Rover is releasing binoculars that are very comparable to alpha tier Euro brands. I tested their Banner Cloud 6x32; the total build quality package isn’t quite there against my Swarovski 7x42 SLC, but optically the Sky Rover is excellent.
zimpenfish 3 days ago|||
I've got the 7A 35mm f/1.2 in M43 which is pretty nice for a walkaround lens.

I'd probably opt for the 50mm f/1.2 since it's 1/3 the price of the f/1.05 (£90 vs £260 for the M43 mount) if I didn't already have double-digit number of 50s in PK mount that I use with an adapter (and they're surprisingly good for 30-50 year old lenses.)

(I've got a 7A 10mm f/3.5 that I've not really got around to using much but now the UK is heading into Fake Summer, there's more light to make it useful.)

hdndjsbbs 3 days ago||
Worth pointing out that there's a 2x crop factor on M43, so the 50mm M43 is effectively a 100mm. I agree that 35mm on M43 is a nice walk around length, it's a little longer than a full frame 50mm already.
niccolove 3 days ago||
And keep in mind crop factor applies to aperture too! A 50mm f1 on M43 in equivalent to 100mm f2.
wao0uuno 3 days ago||
If you're thinking about the depth of field then yes. Exposure wise f1 is f1 no matter the sensor size.
niccolove 3 days ago||
I think that actually it applies to exposure too? Because a M43 sensor is going to be "half" the size of Full Frame, which means that the pixels will have 1/4 of the area, so you need 4 times the light to have the same amount of noise per pixel, i.e. two stops of light... but feel free to correct me here, I only have double checked the math on the depth of field part of it.
wao0uuno 3 days ago||
Yeah kinda. Amount of light per area is the same but smaller sensors have smaller pixels that have worse SNR. This means the sensor receives the same amount of light per area but still needs to boost the signal more because of smaller pixels. I believe that if a full frame camera and MFT camera with the same pixel pitch and lens existed it would get exactly the same SNR and exposure. So basically with smaller sensors DOF is increased, exposure remains the same, SNR gets worse.
fennecfoxy 3 days ago|||
Manual focus I keep for film, I feel like it's a part of the process.

But I do wish my Sony 50 was a little less noisy/slow. Suppose I should pick up the GM version at some point.

pnathan 3 days ago||
I have found TTArtisans 50mm f0.95 to be quite nice.
bambax 3 days ago||
> multiple scenes that specifically required a very thin depth of field

The images at the end of the post are indeed amazing, but I find it funny that we're so obsessed with shallow depth-of-field as a sign of "quality" and/or meaning.

For most of the history of moving pictures, cinema had the exact opposite problem: it looked for the deepest depth-of-field possible in order to make every part of the image count and not waste it to blurriness.

It's a weird reversal of expectations.

niccolove 3 days ago||
> we're so obsessed with shallow depth-of-field as a sign of "quality" and/or meaning.

Nicco here. I didn't use a shallow depth of field here for either reason. I wanted it because all of those scenes are memories of years ago compared to the main events. Thus, I wanted to give the feeling of details blurring out as memories fade. By contrast, I shot the main events at ~f8 on the Helios, so the background is quite sharp.

bensyverson 3 days ago||
Nicco, I'm here to peer pressure you into shooting 8x10 sheet film. :)

You're gonna love it.

niccolove 3 days ago||
Ah ah ah I totally should get into it! When time allows it :-)
bensyverson 3 days ago||
It takes less time than building a camera! haha

Unless you find yourself building an open source rotary film processing system, which is a possibility we can't rule out. :)

miladyincontrol 3 days ago|||
The advances of modern AF and focus pulling systems truly has led to a world of consequences in amateur and even professional film making. In a world where anyone can take half decent video with the phone they always have, its a sign of "I have dedicated hardware to have taken this". The chase for toneh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ8VodC19-g

Not only do many see it as a sign of quality, it lets you ignore the set and stage more than ever. Imperfections? Anomalies? Bah they're blurred out of recognition. Of course it can be used still mindfully and tastefully however such nuance is ever more rare.

Most of my cameras both digital and film alike are medium format. While I'm more of a photographer than someone who does much with video it pains me to have to remind people regularly, just because I can get insanely shallow DoF with the creamiest bokeh they've seen doesn't mean it always makes sense to. Theres a story to be told with foregrounds and backgrounds, and how they can be used to guide the viewer.

Retr0id 3 days ago|||
> we're so obsessed with shallow depth-of-field as a sign of "quality" and/or meaning

It's not necessarily a sign of "quality", but it is something we see less often, which makes it more interesting. Phone cameras can't do shallow depth of field, for example.

And of course, the human eye also has a limited DoF range. It is interesting to see things in a way that we cannot directly perceive.

jtbayly 3 days ago|||
Isn't it also related to wanting images to appear how we would see them in person? Our eyes blur everything we aren't looking at directly, don't they?
niccolove 3 days ago||
To be honest, the aperture of our eyes is so small that, yeah, we do blur background, but nowhere an near as most lenses do.
Lerc 3 days ago|||
The harder to achieve has prestige due to rarity. When the rarity goes away the prestige makes whatever the item was highly popular before the prestige fades. Then the older form becomes more rare and valued by some, in a manner not quite the same as prestige but as a sort of decerning choice.

White bread did this, as did purple dye, and synthetic materials.

kouru225 3 days ago|||
It’s annoying because it’s scarcity for scarcity’s sake. The reality is that low depth of field cameras constrict the actors and make them unable to perform naturally. Blocking out the background is also just hyper-convenience for the audience IMO: you’re telling them exactly where to look. It’s visual handholding.

The only reason why people think this is valuable is that it’s scarce, and scarcity is a terrible metric for art

hdndjsbbs 3 days ago||
Technically the images look great, very impressive. Production-wise I can also see how this could be useful for low-budget interior dialogue scenes where you don't want the set dressing to distract. It really draws focus to the actors and lets the director paint a more impressionistic backdrop.

The exterior shots I've got more mixed feelings about. I think these shallow lenses work best when you have a very controlled backdrop that can be deliberately staged. Using it in a wide outdoor shot feels like a real risk unless you're doing some Kubrickian blocking to make sure everyone is arranged just-so. Or you're making them stand stock-still.

Tepix 3 days ago||
From TFA:

> My camera sensor size is 35mm by 24mm. Multiplied by 12, we get 420mm by 288mm. That's, uh, 42cm by 29cm. It's, like, pretty big. That's the size of a painting you'd hang on your wall. This gives us two issues:

> Firstly, such a sensor simply doesn't exist. …

The Vera Rubins telescope camera has a diameter of 64cm!

<https://www.sciencenews.org/article/vera-rubin-observatory-d...>

echoangle 3 days ago|
That’s not a single CCD though. That’s an array of multiple smaller sensors that are next to each other, but there will be gaps where they meet. They take multiple pictures and combine them to make a regular image of the sky, something you probably can’t really do for photography (or videography of course).
JKCalhoun 3 days ago||
Could also combine with the "scanner back" and not have the intermediary screen you have to photograph.

Of course everything has to remain quite still…

Next level indeed: https://youtu.be/KSvjJGbFCws

niccolove 3 days ago|
This is an option I wanted to experiment with, but when I decided to use it for the short film it died off in my mind. (I even checked how many fps we'd get with a scanner...)
buildbot 3 days ago||
Sensors this large do exist! https://www.servethehome.com/stmicroelectronics-makes-a-18k-...

There’s also (maybe) http://largesense.com

lytfyre 3 days ago|
that STMicroelectronics is 8.31cm by 9.92cm. That's _massive_ by digital sensor terms, but still pretty far off the 42cm by 29cm OP's effectively using.
thenthenthen 3 days ago||
I think next-level would be a hypercentric lens that can see around / behind objects as build buy Applied Science: https://youtu.be/iJ4yL6kaV1A?si=QG7YfeXkOqzoK46O
tsunamifury 3 days ago||
This photographer seems to be chasing the Alec Soth look which can be had with a large format camera and a scanner back.

https://www.mcad.edu/events/visiting-artist-lecture-alec-sot...

hyperific 3 days ago||
Interesting that he explored wax as an interstitial "image sensor" medium. Given the low melting point of wax you would risk part of your camera melting during hot days, or the wax gradually settling on the bottom from heating and cooling cycles.

Kudos to him for exploring it though! The leftover wax could supply a small candle making operation.

brucedawson 3 days ago||
Unfortunate typo: the article says "Having placed the fresnel lens, we're not able to get an usable image on the whole 40x30cm sensor." but I think the "not" should be "now". Having "not" reverse the meaning of the critical sentence!
pixelpoet 3 days ago|
They also keep saying definitively instead of definitely :)
niccolove 3 days ago||
Sorry, I promise I'll spend more time spell checking my articles from now on.
pixelpoet 3 days ago||
It's no problem really, and thanks for the great article! I'm actually simulating lenses at work right now so this is topical and very interesting.

Spellcheck wouldn't help here because definitively is also a word, just not the "write" one :)

foldr 3 days ago|
> And, the combination of wide-angle-view and super-high-aperture would literally require light to pass through the metal of the camera in order to reach the sensor:

This isn’t necessarily true when using a retrofocus wideangle design (as most modern ultrawide lenses do).

niccolove 3 days ago||
To be honest, if that's not the part where physics fail, it's going to be the actual production of the lenses... Either way, there's no such lens available to the market.
arijun 3 days ago||
Doesn’t that remove the narrow depth of focus the author is going for?
foldr 3 days ago||
No. Depth of field is determined by aperture and focal length. Whether or not a lens has a retrofocus design isn’t relevant.
wao0uuno 3 days ago|||
And sensor size. The bigger the sensor the shallower the DOF and better the perceived quality of blur at given f-stop.
foldr 3 days ago||
It’s only the focal length and f-stop that affect depth of field. Sensor size affects it only indirectly, because you need a different focal length to get the same angle of view.

From an optical point of view, light does not bend differently just because you put a differently-sized rectangle somewhere in its path. Or to put it another way, if you cut the edges off your sensor, that won’t alter the image on the remaining area of the sensor.

wao0uuno 3 days ago||
Yeah I guess you're right but there are limits on how shallow your DOF can get on smaller sensors. So when it comes to practical irl results you kinda need a larger sensor to get extremely shallow DOF.
foldr 3 days ago||
> there are limits on how shallow your DOF can get on smaller sensors.

Only in the sense that you generally use a smaller sensor because you want your camera to be small.

If you take a full frame SLR and attach a 100mm f1.8 lens to it, you’ll get a shallow depth of field. Now crop that image down to an area of the sensor corresponding to the size of a phone sensor, and the cropped image will have the exact same depth of field.

arijun 3 days ago|||
Did you read the article?

> Now, here's the kicker: the bigger the focusing lens is, the larger the cone of light rays is, meaning the the out of focus parts of the image will be more out of focus

From the page [0] it takes the depth of focus image from:

> [Depth of focus] differs from depth of field because it describes the distance over which light is focused at the camera's sensor, as opposed to the subject

[0] https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.h...

foldr 3 days ago||
The first quote is clearly talking about depth of field, not depth of focus. See also what I quoted in my original comment.

Depth of focus isn’t really relevant to the rendering of an image (except insofar as you want your camera to be built to sufficient tolerances that a sharp image can be obtained when desired).

I assumed you were using “depth of focus” to mean “depth of field”. If you really meant “depth of focus”, then I would say you are mistaken in thinking that the author’s goal is to obtain a narrow depth of focus.

arijun 2 days ago||
The first quote is definitely talking about depth of focus; the linked image talks about depth of focus and how it compares to depth of field. As I understand it, depth of focus has a similar effect to depth of field. If your rays diverge more quickly on the side of your sensor, you will have a blurrier image for the same distance from the focal plane. Otherwise, how do you think depth of focus presents itself in the final image?
foldr 1 day ago||
Depth of focus doesn’t present itself in the final image. It’s generally irrelevant to practical photography from the point of vide of the photographer (as opposed to the camera designer or lens manufacturer). The first quote is talking about depth of field (i.e. how quickly focus falls off from the plane of perfect focus).

FWIW, here is what Claude has to say:

>> Is depth of focus, as opposed to depth of field, generally relevant to practical photography?

> Not really, no. Depth of focus and depth of field are related but distinct concepts, and for practical photography, depth of field is what matters almost all the time.

> Depth of field refers to the zone in front of the camera where subjects appear acceptably sharp. This is what photographers think about constantly: choosing apertures to blur backgrounds in portraits, stopping down for landscapes to keep everything sharp, figuring out hyperfocal distance, etc.

> Depth of focus refers to the tolerance zone behind the lens, at the image plane (the sensor or film), within which the image remains acceptably sharp. It tells you how precisely the sensor needs to be positioned relative to the lens for focus to be maintained.

> For the overwhelming majority of photographers, depth of focus is invisible because it's a manufacturing and engineering concern, not a shooting concern. Camera makers deal with it when designing bodies and ensuring sensor flatness, lens mount tolerances, and autofocus calibration. You encounter it indirectly if you ever need to calibrate autofocus micro-adjustments, shim a lens, or diagnose back/front focus issues, but you don't actively manipulate it while composing a shot.

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