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Posted by trocado 7 hours ago

Traders placed over $1B in perfectly timed bets on the Iran war(www.theguardian.com)
251 points | 175 comments
slg 3 hours ago|
Say whatever you want about the merits of prediction markets. But I just don't see a way those benefits outweigh the societal dangers of these constant reminders that people in or close to power can freely profit from their positions in the ways the rest of the population can't. There's always talk about the dangers of disincentivizing job creators, but what happens when a society routinely disincentives job havers in this way? We're just getting a constant barrage of information telling us that if we show up to our job and simply work as we're expected that we're stooges who won't get ahead. You'll need to look for your own individual scheme, ethics be damned, if you just want to keep up with the rest of the population. That's not healthy on an individual level or cumulatively at a societal level.
jaredklewis 2 hours ago||
The current setup does sort of seem like a tax on being stupid. Why would any non-insider participate in these markets? You’re just asking to get screwed.

Though it’s not that different from the stock market, where the folks at WSB happily give their money to Citadel, Jane Street, and friends, because every once a while, one of them hits it big after going all in that the ball lands on green.

Gambling is a hell of a drug and there are good reasons why it is illegal in so many places. Prediction markets have some good externalities (information), but it’s another addictive outlet for those vulnerable to gambling addiction.

lostlogin 1 hour ago|||
> The current setup does sort of seem like a tax on being stupid.

More like a tax on being ethical or having any morality.

jaredklewis 13 minutes ago|||
What is unethical?

The good point of prediction markets is that they provide information. This information is available to everyone, for free, which benefits everyone.

Insiders help achieve this. Insiders have information and by participating in the market they then expose and share that information. So this is good. If we ban insiders, we're just banning accurate information from getting into the market. If we do that, we might as well just ban prediction markets altogether. I don't have a strong opinion either way on that, but a prediction market without insiders is pointless.

nojito 59 minutes ago||||
>Why would any non-insider participate in these markets?

Because they are grossly mis-priced for anyone mildly informed.

direwolf20 32 minutes ago||
Did you get rich off these markets? If not, how can you say it's true?
mothballed 2 hours ago||||
As a hedge. Say you own real estate in UAE, and you note that insurance does not cover acts of war. Betting on something like "Iran Bombs Dubai" creates some form of real estate insurance for you.

Even if you suppose my example is bad, you should be able to envision some case where such hedge is helpful.

MadnessASAP 1 hour ago|||
Yes, but the examples where it's good has a name "insurance". It exists, it's generally well regulated, and is not easily exploited.

The reason it works better is because in a prediction market, the person betting against you has no resources or ability to go after you for fraudulent behavior. Whereas an insurance company has both.

amelius 1 hour ago|||
Why not get a real insurance, where it is actually verified that your house was bombed?
crazygringo 1 hour ago|||
Because there are many things where insurance doesn't exist.
amelius 1 hour ago|||
Ok let's work on that then. But meanwhile, close down unregulated websites like polymarket, where there is no verification of actual damage.
crazygringo 1 hour ago||
You can't just "work on that".

Insurance works on repeatable, predictable risks based on models.

You can't get insurance against a military attack. But you can hedge using a prediction market. It's essentially the version of insurance for one-off events, that relies on wagers since you can't use models.

mothballed 1 hour ago|||
I'm not saying it's not out there, but in many cases finding insurance for act of war is difficult. It is certainly rare and almost always far less accessible than using polymarket. If you have a very large holding you can probably get someone to write it for you though.
direwolf20 32 minutes ago|||
> Why would any non-insider participate in these markets? You’re just asking to get screwed.

If people who do the obvious trades (sell oil right now - it's going down) lose money, all you have to do is do the opposite (buy oil right now - it's going down) and gain money. Is it not that simple? You will profit along with the insiders when Trump blockades the strait again, although you won't have such perfect timing.

H8crilA 2 hours ago|||
The oil trade structure actually does make sense, because this is how you buy oil, or really any commodity that takes so much space and weight. You order it ahead of time, then if you hold till the contract settles you are allowed to pick it up from the place and in the way designated in the contract specification. In fact you are obliged to pick it up, that's why prices can go negative in exceptional situations. Prediction markets are then just a clean cash-only derivative.

Most of the other prediction markets seems rather stupid to me (they are completely detached from any real world activity), other than their prices being a fairly reliable source of information for bystanders.

slg 2 hours ago|||
>The oil trade structure actually does make sense, because this is how you buy oil, or really any commodity that takes so much space and weight. You order it ahead of time, then if you hold till the contract settles you are allowed to pick it up from the place and in the way designated in the contract specification. In fact you are obliged to pick it up, that's why prices can go negative in exceptional situations. Prediction markets are then just a clean cash-only derivative.

You just described what is happening, you didn't actually provide any reason for why this is good for anyone but the individuals profiting from it.

nine_k 1 hour ago|||
The point is that's a dubious derivative of a market that makes sense.

As usual, it's a tax on naive and those who get addicted; the twist is that they are willing to pay it, demand and beg to pay it, so providers spring up, legal or not.

Tade0 2 hours ago|||
Airlines in particular prefer to have a predictable price of fuel, whatever it might be, so they buy futures.
lesuorac 2 hours ago|||
Do they? Afaik, they don't [1].

> WONG: However, Gerry says most of the major airlines in the U.S. eventually soured on fuel hedging. One reason - the Wall Street transaction fees to make these hedges got expensive.

> WOODS: Plus, Gerry says the airlines found that they could make money the old-fashioned way by raising prices. Today, none of the major airlines in the U.S. are hedging.

Hedging is one of those things that sounds cool but then when your service is x% more expensive than a competitor and you lose customers you just stop doing it. It's kinda like being on AWS; when everybody has an outage together nobody asks "oh what can be done differently".

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2026/03/27/nx-s1-5759203/fuel-hedging-on...

slg 1 hour ago||||
Is there a name for the phenomenon of when someone provides a single explanation that is so inconsequential that it ends up being counterproductive because surely they would have given a better explanation if one existed?

If your go-to reasoning for why we need prediction markets is so airlines can have more predictability in their fuel costs, you're inadvertently making a solid argument that we don't actually need prediction markets. And this isn't even getting into the other ways these airlines could satisfy the same need.

fyredge 1 hour ago||||
That still does not satisfactorily answer the question though, why don't they just sign a purchase order with N month lead time? That still gives a well defined price ahead of time.
strulovich 1 hour ago|||
The people who need the constant price do that, but creating this contract generates an investment at the same time. The person promising the price is taking a premium to take the risk, they can the sell that risk in a free market.
nine_k 1 hour ago|||
But that's literally what a "future" is.
direwolf20 30 minutes ago|||
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tyre 2 hours ago|||
are you saying that the people trading on inside information about military operations are… producers hedging exposure?
colechristensen 2 hours ago|||
I think the bigger risk is changing major decisions (like war) based on the profitability of bets. Forget about drone war doctrine, if you're an adversary just place absurdly large bets which incentivize the opposition to do what you want. (i.e. bet so you "lose" the bet when the enemy changes their posture to gain the profit).

Politics is already full of these pay to play incentives but now anyone with enough cash can influence world events.

SJMG 2 hours ago||
This kind of nation-level hedging has been talked about for years in betting market-aware communities. It's honestly a much better use than fleecing nobodies with insider knowledge.
stubish 1 hour ago||
We should be more worried about who placed the losing bets then. Russia, Israel and China having a market for government and military officials to accept their bribes is kind of a bigger story than insiders fleecing gamblers.
airstrike 2 hours ago|||
> Say whatever you want about the merits of prediction markets

Go on, I'll wait for those "merits"

boringg 2 hours ago|||
Lining the pockets of the vcs who funded them and the other insiders. Nothing but an extractionary industry with no underlying benefit.
austhrow743 1 hour ago|||
More accurate information about the world allows for more effective decision making.
luxuryballs 1 hour ago|||
what you’re describing kind of sounds like the wild west or the settlers frontier or the Industrial Revolution, all things that were actually quite beneficial, however in our current environment where everything has been regulated and captured by corporate lobbied legal machinery it’s much worse to have heavy restriction on the masses with the monied upper class able to grease the wheels, if we’re going to have the freedom we need to boom a healthy economy for everyone we need far more wild west from top to bottom
TZubiri 2 hours ago|||
As a foreigner, some view making business with the US as shady in of itself. I usually stand by the US legal system, (which even american citizens might find laughable), but this is by far the most likely reason I would distance myself from doing business.

It helps that some states are bringing criminal charges vs these companies. But it looks like a no contest as to how we'll look back to these kinds of things in 5 years.

Betting on war is war, you may argue that it's an individual's right to participate in war, (I don't think so, I think that it's a war crime for unmarked civilians to participate in war), but funding bellicose action is war.

Buttons840 1 hour ago||
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beaviskhan 5 hours ago||
You'd have to be spectacularly stupid to bet on these kinds of things without having insider knowledge, because you ought to know good and damn well by now that the people with insider knowledge are DEFINITELY betting on them.
janalsncm 2 hours ago||
This was my thought. If these markets continue allowing insiders, it’ll drive all of the cash from regular people away. So there will be way less money for insiders to win even if they are allowed.

So the perception of insiders is pretty bad for prediction markets as a business imo.

The sooner they knock off the rhetoric about the “theory” behind prediction markets and start thinking about it like a business, the sooner they will take insiders seriously.

a2128 2 hours ago|||
I think the market could adapt if regular people left. Insider trading would become multilayered and complex. Insiders would scheme against lower-level insiders; decisionmakers would try to trick insiders into thinking that one thing will happen before doing the complete opposite thing. The world would become more erratic and unpredictable, even insiders wouldn't know what is going on.

Although Polymarket is currently spending a lot of money trying to market itself to working-class regular people to get hooked and scam their paychecks out of[0]

[0] https://nypost.com/2026/02/12/us-news/nyc-gets-its-first-fre...

crazygringo 1 hour ago||
I mean, the thing is, insiders will disagree. Nobody has a crystal ball to predict the future perfectly.

Military operations go awry. Countries react in unexpected ways. Leaders change their minds.

And as a potential event gets closer, insider information changes. Different insiders have different sets of partial knowledge.

You don't even need scheming and tricking. Just regular reality is already complicated enough.

lostlogin 1 hour ago|||
> If these markets continue allowing insiders

What are the chances of large bets being made by anyone who isn’t an insider?

3eb7988a1663 5 hours ago|||
Even if you are not "betting" similar trades are happening in the stock market as well. Large movements in oil futures shortly before policy changes are announced.
janalsncm 2 hours ago||
Insider trading is at least regulated in the stock market, albeit imperfectly. Imagine how much worse it would be if C-levels could just short their own stock during a board meeting. No one without insider knowledge would touch it.
troyastorino 1 hour ago||
Matt Levine often says something like "insider trading is not about fairness, it's about theft." The problem isn't that it's less fair to some stock traders than others, and that stock trading should be some form of perfect gambling where everyone has an equal chance of success. Stock trading is inherently about exploiting information asymmetries — that is what all "non-insiders" are trying to do. But insider trading is wrong because it's effectively stealing confidential information from the company & shareholders, which is in violation of & conflict with the fiduciary responsibility that board members, executives, and employees generally have towards shareholders.

Conceptually, I think that is the right analogy to think about. Prediction markets "want" to be a more accurate source of information, just like stock markets, so from that lens "getting" information to be more accurate is good. When government officials are placing bets on prediction markets, though, it's a massive violation of operational security, and leaking confidential information. They probably think that they are acting anonymously, but it creates so many opportunities for unfriendly state actors to get information, especially if people do it consistently.

stubish 1 hour ago|||
A bet against an event is win/win if you want that event to occur. If you are a country that wanted the US to strike Iran, placing a large number of bets that they won't either gets you what you want or earns you money. It is one reason why you can't bet on someone being murdered, as it creates a deniable market to crowd source assassination. Strange that you can crowd source war, but not assassination.
strulovich 1 hour ago|||
You also have to be quite stupid to do it with insider knowledge. A bunch of them have been caught in Israel.

Being indicted for treason and treason like charges sounds worse than the SEC coming after you.

crazygringo 1 hour ago|||
And this is the whole point.

Prediction markets are supposed to be providing the most accurate predictions.

The most accurate predictions come from insider information.

Poeple complaining about insider trading on prediction markets seem to be missing the point. They're supposed to have insider trading. That's the whole idea.

agumonkey 5 hours ago|||
considering the scale involved, and the OSINT trend, is it possible that people could monitor and correlate stuff like airplane, or us navy activity to deduce when to enter ?
nathancahill 5 hours ago||
I saw a tweet about a trader placing an oil bet when they saw two military aircraft turn around on their way to Iran, via transponder. I believe before the deal was announced.
3eb7988a1663 5 hours ago||
That also sounds easy enough to fake for some plausible deniability.
yellow_postit 3 hours ago|||
Just as parallel construction [1] is used by law enforcement to conceal methods and practices no reason to not expect the same for financial gain.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

huorricannes 3 hours ago|||
in fact US army publicly admitting running a disinformation campaign involving flying planes knowing they would be seen by osint in the previous Iran attack from last summer
stefan_ 2 hours ago|||
Do you buy oil or products made with it? Then sorry, you made a bet, and in fact you were just ripped off by your own government for the third time in a row.

This is not a "crypto prediction market" problem.

bluecalm 4 hours ago|||
Same goes for sport betting and yet here we are. People like to bet. They willingly bet on things they have guaranteed disadvantage on (casino games like roulette, slots etc.). People also drink pure poison (alcohol), smoke pure poison (cigarettes) and engage in brain dead activities like speeding and street racing.

Gambling should be judged as any other vice - people get something out of it (rush, hope, whatever) not by rational money allocation standards.

paulpauper 5 hours ago|||
couldn't you somehow in theory track the order book to if and when insiders are betting and then copy the trade?
andrepd 5 hours ago|||
Not knowing who are the insiders and who is the dumb flow is like the fundamental problem of hft
iknowSFR 5 hours ago|||
You can trade on non-public information if you obtain that information unintentionally. Now you have to be able to prove it’s unintentional if the question came up. A real experience example of this is if you work in an office building and your neighboring company, a public company, is being raided by the FBI. Can you use that information to take a position in the market? Yes, according to multiple attorneys we spoke with.

I bring this up because we assume the trading is coming from insiders but I wonder if the parties behind this have baked in a layer similar to my story above.

To close this back to your comment, and I don’t have an answer here: is knowing who the insiders are and acting on that a crime? If you did know and didn’t report them, are you breaking a law? Or worse, you reported it to the deaf ears of a regulator that are focused elsewhere or are under resourced to respond now?

huorricannes 3 hours ago||
intentionally/unintentionally is not relevant.

it's legal to follow FBI cars and see who they raid so as to make trades. you could even have a hedge fund specialized on this. it's called alternative data

you can even be a regular employer of a public company and trade based on information sent on internal emails.

the only thing illegal is to be a designated insider - typically a restricted group of people with access to sensitive information

JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago||
> you can even be a regular employer of a public company and trade based on information sent on internal emails

You absolutely cannot.

Supermancho 3 hours ago||
"cannot" here meaning it's likely to be prosecuted, not that you cannot. You absolutely can.
anonymars 2 hours ago|||
This interpretation is incredibly unlikely. The first and third paragraphs discuss legality, but the middle one was merely talking about likelihood of prosecution?

Even then it would be inaccurate: the regulators are not too stupid to put two and two together that you work for a company and got incredibly lucky with your trade

Supermancho 2 hours ago||
To be clear, I was responding about trading on internal communications, not specifically a raid. The practice of using internal communication to guide trading runs contrary to most company policies. I happen to have worked at a company where this kind of practice was both acknowledged and openly discussed. It was a strange place.

> the regulators are not too stupid to put two and two together that you work for a company and got incredibly lucky with your trade

You’re implying some specific combination of factors, but it’s not clear what you mean. What qualifies as "timing"? Around earnings, when trading volume is highest or just around some event? And what exactly counts as "lucky"?

Why would regulators scrutinize a sub-$25k purchase of my own company’s stock? That concern feels overstated. Granted, I’m not a lawyer. In practice I can place a trade at any time. If someone is routinely making $20k–$30k transactions, that alone is unlikely to trigger scrutiny.

The claim that you "absolutely cannot do this" is simply incorrect. I stand by that.

anonymars 1 hour ago|||
Looks like you're one of today's lucky 10,000* to learn that insider trading is very much illegal!

Here's a few examples: https://www.sec.gov/spotlight/insidertrading/cases.shtml

Some further advice on the matter: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-12/the-10-la...

10 Laws of Insider Trading

1. Don’t do it.

2. Don’t do it by buying short-dated out-of-the-money call options on merger targets.

3. Don’t text or email about it.

4. Don’t do it in your mother’s account.

5. Don’t do it by planting bombs at a company and shorting its stock.

6. Don’t do it while employed at the Securities and Exchange Commission.

7. Don’t Google “how to insider trade without getting caught” before doing it.

8. If you didn’t insider trade, don’t forget and accidentally confess to insider trading.

9. If you are going to insider trade, do it in a company that is far away from a Securities and Exchange Commission office. Like, physically.

10. If you are already under a federal ethics investigation about your ownership or promotion of a stock, don’t insider trade that stock.

* https://m.xkcd.com/1053/

JumpCrisscross 1 hour ago|||
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3eb7988a1663 5 hours ago||||
How is there enough volume to cover the other side of the bet with these minutes-before trades?
andrepd 5 hours ago||
The oil market is, to put it mildly, fucking huge
JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago|||
> oil market is, to put it mildly, fucking huge

Sure. But these aren't trades in "the oil market." They're bets on Polymarket and a specific oil-futures exchange.

3eb7988a1663 5 hours ago||||
For sure, the real trading markets are huge. I mean the betting platforms.
huorricannes 3 hours ago||
the betting markets offset positions with the real markets. it's all connected
JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago||
> betting markets offset positions with the real markets

Need a strong source for this. The size (and regulatory) disconnect between the two would seem to make making markets in both a bit silly.

OutOfHere 5 hours ago|||
Are you implying that there is arbitrage between the prediction market and the real market? Until now we were assuming that the prediction market is self-contained, with its other side staying within the confines of the prediction market.
huorricannes 3 hours ago||
the other side can and many times is an arbitrageour which has positions in both the prediction market and the real market
cout 3 hours ago||||
In theory that is part of what was supposed to have been solved by CAT.
phrygian 3 hours ago||
What is CAT?
paulpauper 2 hours ago||||
insiders would presumably be bigger trades that show high conviction about improbable events. An insider would wait until the last minute to take advantage of low prices of a market close to expiration.
georgemcbay 5 hours ago|||
For prediction markets you can find out who the insiders are for different categories over time, see for example:

https://x.com/peterjliu/status/2024901585806225723

But there is still the problem of knowing which new trades the insiders made before the bet is settled (maybe solved by being an insider of the prediction market), and also since prediction markets need money on both sides (you are betting against other people, not the 'house') when the insiders make their buy they probably eat up most of or all of the action on the other side.

aaron695 2 hours ago|||
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socalgal2 2 hours ago||
Apparently, according to you, lots of people are spectularly stupid because the only way you make money in a prediction market is for someone to bet on the opposing view point.
jagged-chisel 2 hours ago||
And how else would one make money in a prediction market? The winner isn't paid from the ether; money doesn't just materialize to pay the winner.
outlore 5 hours ago||
There’s a recent Patrick Boyle video which puts it aptly: prediction markets are a wealth transfer from retail investors to trading algorithms and people with security clearances.

Anyway, one thing I don’t understand yet is how new markets are created. They aren’t user generated, so how did an “Iran strike” market exist to begin with?

1659447091 4 hours ago||
> one thing I don’t understand yet is how new markets are created. They aren’t user generated, so how did an “Iran strike” market exist to begin with?

Having the US presidents kids as multimillion dollar investors in the platforms and on the advisory board of one them would be a good place to look

cwillu 2 hours ago|||
https://help.polymarket.com/en/articles/13364541-how-are-mar...

Users absolutely can propose markets

Terr_ 48 minutes ago||
Also: Nascent exchanges for paying someone to commit violent or illegal acts.
reactordev 5 hours ago||
Prediction Markets require insider trading to function... how do people not know this? It's a setup from day one. If you have the knowledge, you're going to cash in, if you don't have the knowledge, you are throwing your money away.
firebot 5 hours ago||
Most gamblers prescribe to the cost sunk fallacy and keep 'one more time'ing it to bankruptcy.

Math wins over your feels every time.

OutOfHere 5 hours ago||
If you follow your math, such gambling losers don't really have that much money to bet on an ongoing basis. The ones who support the losing side on prediction markets are the ones who usually do fine, but sometimes are taken by surprise.
bigfatkitten 3 hours ago|||
Problem gamblers routinely take out loans, mortgage major assets, max out credit cards, and steal from their employers to fund their habits.
casey2 5 hours ago|||
Statcon 101: Gambling addicts take loans to gamble, those loans are sold to your pension fund. Who is the loser?
mr_00ff00 1 hour ago|||
> But traders weren’t just active on Polymarket: there were similar surges of oil futures trading activity just hours before Trump announced updates to the conflict that would lower oil prices.

Prediction markets are all the buzz, but banning them isn’t fixing the problem. This has happened forever. Let’s not forget there was an unusual amount of put option buying right before 9/11: https://ideas.repec.org/a/ucp/jnlbus/v79y2006i4p1703-1726.ht...

TZubiri 2 hours ago|||
The theory would be that the people without information pay for knowledge. Or to hedge against certain events.

Similarly to how people would pay premium over inusrance

UncleMeat 5 hours ago|||
I've never seen an ad from either Kalshi or Polymarket that says "don't play if you aren't an insider."
jjav 5 hours ago||
The game only works if they also have a lot of people losing money.
b0Ringmth 3 hours ago||
Yeah just another Ponzi scheme; one sided extraction with a slight chance of payout that never comes

Stephen Miller and Charlie Kirk were pretty clear their sides whole philosophy is take and never give back. They learned it was OK not from their parents but gen pop sitting on their hands.

The entire economy is Las Vegas now; only the (white) house wins

DANmode 5 hours ago|||
potentially, each time.
nojito 3 hours ago||
>Prediction Markets require insider trading to function.

And yet there are folks like me who have been on them for years before kalshi/polymarket making a very good side income from them without having insider knowledge.

Prediction markets as a whole are very very inefficient. That's not to say that insider trading doesn't exist but you can't claim that they require insider trading to function.

reenorap 5 hours ago||
Without them talking about how much people LOST, this entire article is meaningless. With the advent of 0DTE options which dominate options trading, the fact that the notional number of people who made money makes sense because so many more people have lost money.
jfrbfbreudh 5 hours ago||
Yes, someone is on the other side of the losing trade, but how many people (not firms) do you know who write contracts for short term options?

I personally don’t know any, and I worked at one of the biggest HFT firms for a few years.

The losing side(s) of these positions are heavily hedged, and are happily making money on volume and volatility. (And making record profits this year)

watwut 5 hours ago||
Of course they made money from other traders. But that is precisedly the issue with insider trading - you are taking money from more honest traders.
ninjahawk1 1 hour ago||
In my opinion the entire prediction market is simply a way to legalize insider trading and war profiteering.
Stevvo 3 hours ago||
These articles always focus on "Yes" bets. An insider betting "No" might get by completely unnoticed.
ckemere 2 hours ago||
Why can’t the markets just forbid transactions that happen within 48 hours of resolution?
low_tech_love 2 hours ago||
Because the markets don’t “forbid” anything, especially when they are profiting from it, which polymarket definitely is. It’s the government who must forbid things for the good of the citizens. But somehow the citizens were dumb enough to fall for the bullshit idea that you should put the same person who is profiting in charge of regulating their own crimes!
gleenn 2 hours ago||
What does that solve? Wouldn't the insiders in e.g. the Iran War just have to place their bets 3 days before?
lifter3101 1 hour ago|
Why wouldn’t the platforms require the identity of people cashing out more than, let’s say, $10k a year to be public? Or at least, require KYC level trail to cash out so it can be investigated later.

It protects 99% of people who want to have fun by losing money and prevents insider trading at no virtually no cost.

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