Top
Best
New

Posted by Liriel 4 days ago

GitHub's fake star economy(awesomeagents.ai)
801 points | 370 commentspage 2
NooneAtAll3 3 days ago|
I remember long ago watching Tom Scott (iirc) video about him buying facebook impressions once

you instantly got like 40k likes - but there was a catch

algorithm saw you getting a lot of likes from Iran/Pakistan, so went on recommending the post to those countries, got no response and stopped recommending said post altogether

in a sense, it became a self-regulating system, where fake impressions extinguish their very reason to be bought

mentalgear 3 days ago||
> VC funding pipeline that treats GitHub popularity as proof of traction

Why am I not surprised big Capital corrupts everything. Also, Goodhart's law applies again: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure".

HN Folks: What reliant, diverse signals do you use to quickly eval a repo's quality? For me it is: Maintenance status, age, elegance of API and maybe commit history.

PS: From the article:

> instead tracks unique monthly contributor activity - anyone who created an issue, comment, PR, or commit. Fewer than 5% of top 10,000 projects ever exceeded 250 monthly contributors; only 2% sustained it across six months.

> [...] recommends five metrics that correlate with real adoption: package downloads, issue quality (production edge cases from real users), contributor retention (time to second PR), community discussion depth, and usage telemetry.

consp 3 days ago||
Overly verbose and "glitter" readme.md files is a good indicator of bad projects or at least projects which need more attention to be used. It's too often pre-rugpull or look-at-me repos where better solutions are one click away.

Finding any curse words in hidden comments in the commit history is for me a good indication of a human working on a passion project, though ymmv.

And there are always exceptions to the exception of the exceptions.

duzer65657 3 days ago|||
I tend to look at other people involved, like contributors but not just the volume but actual people and their other activity. If the original author is still around and active that tends to be a good sign IME
readthedangcode 3 days ago||
I usually just read the dang code.
aledevv 4 days ago||
> VCs explicitly use stars as sourcing signals

In my opinion, nothing could be more wrong. GitHub's own ratings are easily manipulated and measure not necessarily the quality of the project itself, but rather its Popularity. The problem is that popularity is rarely directly proportional to the quality of the project itself.

I'm building a product and I'm seeing what important is the distribution and comunication instead of the development it self.

Unfortunately, a project's popularity is often directly proportional to the communication "built" around it and inversely proportional to its actual quality. This isn't always the case, but it often is.

Moreover, adopting effective and objective project evaluation tools is quite expensive for VCs.

ozgrakkurt 4 days ago||
Vast majority of mid level experienced people take stars very seriously and they won't use anything under 100 stars.

I'm not supporting this view but it is what it is unfortunately.

VCs that invest based on stars do know something I guess or they are just bad investors.

IMO using projects based on start count is terrible engineering practice.

tylergetsay 3 days ago|||
I've seen the same devs refuse to use a library because the last commit was 3 months ago, despite the library being extremely popular, battle tested, and existing for 10 years.
aledevv 4 days ago|||
also and above all because it can be easily manipulated, as the research explained in the article actually demonstrates
criddell 3 days ago|||
> measure not necessarily the quality of the project itself, but rather its Popularity

Surely a project's popularity is often related to its utility. A useful and popular project seems like exactly the kind of thing a VC might be interested in.

williamdclt 4 days ago||
Well, pretty sure that VCs are more interested in popularity than in quality so maybe it's not such a bad metric for them.
aledevv 4 days ago||
Yes, you're right, but popularity becomes fleeting without real quality behind the projects.

Hype helps raise funds, of course, and sells, of course.

But it doesn't necessarily lead to long-term sustainability of investments.

mlpotato 3 days ago||
I wonder if it makes sense for GitHub to use graph-theoretic measures like PageRank instead of raw stars. In simple terms, a repo is considered important if it is starred or forked by GitHub users who maintain other important repos.

It’s more expensive to compute, but the resulting scores would be more trustworthy unless I’m missing something.

mankins 3 days ago|
That sounds closer to achieving a good outcome. Of course I think anything that includes the set of all users as columns will be game-able. You need to either choose the set yourself from "trusted peers" or "foaf" degrees, or maybe better use retroactive signals rather than purely like-driven approaches.
elashri 4 days ago||
I usually use stars as a bookmark list to visit later (which I rarely do). I probably would need to stop doing that and use my self-hosted "Karkeep" instance for github projects as well.
QuantumNomad_ 4 days ago|
Never heard of it before.

https://github.com/karakeep-app/karakeep

Sounds useful.

I’ll star it and check it out later ;)

ningshiqi 1 day ago||
Built a fake star detector that uses stratified sampling across the full star history (not just recent stargazers).

Ran it on Union Labs and a few other repos from the Awesome Agents investigation. Results are interesting.

https://starforensic.pro

apples_oranges 4 days ago||
I look at the starts when choosing dependencies, it's a first filter for sure. Good reminder that everything gets gamed given the incentives.
msdz 4 days ago||
> I look at the starts when choosing dependencies, it's a first filter for sure.

Unfortunately I still look at them, too, out of habit: The project or repo's star count _was_ a first filter in the past, and we must keep in mind it no longer is.

> Good reminder that everything gets gamed given the incentives.

Also known as Goodhart's law [1]: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure".

Essentially, VCs screwed this one up for the rest of us, I think?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

yuppiepuppie 4 days ago|||
> The project or repo's star count _was_ a first filter in the past, and we must keep in mind it no longer is.

Id suggest the first question to ask is "if the project is an AI project or not?" If it is, dont pay attention to the stars - if it's not, use the stars as a first filter. That's the way I analyse projects on Github now.

GrinningFool 3 days ago|||
> The project or repo's star count _was_ a first filter in the past, a

I agree that it has been a first filter, but should it ever have been? A star only says that someone had a passing interest in a project. Not significantly different from a 'like' on a social media post.

moffkalast 4 days ago||
Average case of "once a measure becomes a target".
tsylba 3 days ago||
Personally I use stars in two ways: 1) It's interesting and I want to keep track of it for possible future use and 2) It's a fantastic idea and kudos to you even if I'll never use it.

As a side note it's kind of disheartening that everytime there is a metric related to popularity there would be some among us that will try to game it for profit, basically to manipulate our natural bias.

As a side note it's always a bit sad how the parasocial nature of the modern web make us like machine interfacing via simple widgets, becoming mechanical robot ourselves rationalising IO via simple metrics kind of forgetting that the map is never the territory.

Lapel2742 4 days ago||
I do not look at the stars. I look at the list of contributors, their activities and the bug reports / issues.
est 4 days ago||
> I look at the list of contributors

Specifically if those avatars are cute animie girls.

tomaytotomato 4 days ago||
> Specifically if those avatars are cute anime girls.

I know you are half joking/not joking, but this is definitely a golden signal.

GaryBluto 4 days ago||
Positive or negative to you? Whenever I see more than one anime-adjacent profile picture I duck out.
pezgrande 3 days ago||
Positive ofc, most of them a top-tier Rust devs.
mrweasel 4 days ago||
Yeah, I didn't think anyone would place any actual value on the stars. It almost doesn't need to be a feature, because what is it suppose to do exactly?
anant-singhal 4 days ago|
Seen this happen first-hand with mid-to-large open source projects that sometimes "sponsor" hackathons, literally setting a task to "star the repo" to be eligible.

It’s supposed to get people to actually try your product. If they like it, they star it. Simple.

At that point, forcing the action just inflates numbers and strips them of any meaning.

Gaming stars to set it as a positive signal for the product to showcase is just SHIT.

More comments...