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Posted by nkurz 1 day ago

Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen(asteriskmag.com)
476 points | 302 commentspage 2
jasperry 11 hours ago|
This is some of the most useful information I've received in a while. Like the author, the low overdose threshold of acetaminophen made me avoid it, even though I always take low doses anyway and ibuprofen gives me acid reflux almost every time.
makeitdouble 7 hours ago|||
Still take it with a huge grain of salt. Even official advice usually has severe limitations due to its broadness or straight politics, so medical analysis from random blogs truely isn't the best.

Acetoaminophen also has issues for people with weaker stomachs (I can attest), and will come with additional medication to cover these effects as needed. The whole "Is it safe yes/no" table has many asterixes and might be outright false depending on the how you look at it.

As usual, it's just complicated.

dncornholio 3 hours ago|||
Never take anything that written on the medications with a grain of salt. Disregard everything that you have read online. The medicine instructions are your single source of truth
ButlerianJihad 7 hours ago|||
Is the salt supposed to offset hyponatremia or something?
the_sleaze_ 11 hours ago||
Same here. Great article.

I avoid both and stick with naproxen sodium. Any issues with that one? Lasts the longest too.

pkaye 11 hours ago|||
Both ibuprofen and naproxen sodium are NSAIDs and are bad for your kidneys especially in long term. I had kidney failure due to what was eventually diagnosed as an autoimmune disease but they first thing the ER doctor will ask is if you have been taking NSAIDs. My nephrologists told be its still safe to take acetaminophen at the proper dose.
kirrent 9 hours ago||||
None of us are your doctors but Naproxen has well-known gastric issues up to ulcers and stomach bleeding which is why it's advised to be taken with food and why it's also often prescribed with a PPI or H2 Antagonist. Cox-2 selectives such as Celecoxib greatly reduce this risk but seem to be associated with some small cardiovascular risk (admittedly this is a feature of all NSAIDs though less so in Naproxen apparently).
y1n0 10 hours ago||||
Some believe naproxen sodium is worse for you because it lasts longer. Longer duration for reduced mucous membrane coverage in your stomach and intestine. Longer duration for reduced blood flow to your kidneys.

I would definitely have a chat with a doctor about it.

jasperry 11 hours ago||||
Looking at the Wikipedia article, it seems naproxen is a NSAID like ibuprofen and can cause all the same gastrointestinal issues.
dilyevsky 7 hours ago||||
Naproxen sodium has much higher risk of GI damage especially with long term use.
KaiserPro 7 hours ago||||
wait, how are you getting naproxen?

Whenever its prescribed here, its paired with some sort of intestine protection medicine to stop it burning holes in your stomach/intenstines

Ibuprofen is much safer, so long as you eat with it.

Paracetamol is also safer, so long as you don't OD.

BUT! so long as you stay below 4 grams a day, you'll be safe. (yes yes, in some situations you can take double, but unless you are under supervision, thats asking for liver pain.)

Mars008 7 hours ago||||
I had to use naproxen for some time as most effective way to control inflammation. Actually the only way, ibuprofen had some effect only in horse dozes. After visiting doctor, analyses, checking available sources was able to eliminate the reason of inflammation. Apparently it was a well known problem/solution. So far so good. Not sure about the long lasting effects of naproxen use.
guelo 9 hours ago|||
All the over the counter NSAIDs have a similar safety profile.
_--__--__ 13 hours ago||
My father, who is otherwise in very good health for a ~60 year old, has severely reduced kidney function from taking an ibuprofen+antihistamine most days of his early life to deal with allergies.

I'll second the claim that no doctor at any point in his life had told him the risks of doing that, and many encouraged the use of ibuprofen over any other alternative (including the alternative of not using OTC painkillers every single day).

i_think_so 7 hours ago|
If there's one thing I'm hopeful for regarding all this AI hype, it's that some day we might actually get the Expert Systems we were promised decades ago. Then, finally, we can stop expecting human doctors to know everything. There's just so much going on inside our bodies and it's unrealistic.

I had a relative with a different story in the same theme. It sucks and I want to see this technology do something truly beneficial for a change....

jeroenhd 6 hours ago||
The expert system relies on training data, and most of the medical data on the internet is either outdated or outright wrong. AI is not going to solve what the existence of Google hasn't solved already.
i_think_so 6 hours ago||
[dead]
blueblisters 7 hours ago||
Acetaminophen (paracetamol) is the drug of first choice for addressing pain and fever, in India at least. To the extent that it's regularly abused, and I know people who have been hospitalized because of abuse.

Even then, doctors are usually disapproving of ibuprofen (or some combination of it with paracetamol) unless paracetamol is contraindicated for some reason, and I had always wondered why.

timvdalen 7 hours ago|
I did listen to this 99% Invisible story about the use of NSAIDs in India once[1]

What you describe in an interesting contrast to the situation in The Netherlands. Here, virtually no one is prescribing ibuprofen _without_ also prescribing a baseline of paracetamol.

[1]: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/579-towers-of-silence...

georgeburdell 8 hours ago||
I went from introvert only-child to married with kids. As they hit daycare, I was perpetually riddled with disease for about 15 months. I still had to take care of the kids though, so I was liberally taking Ibuprofen. At some point, I started to get horrible heartburn. I tried all kinds of dietary restrictions until I realized it was probably the Ibuprofen. Now, if I take even one pill, the heartburn comes back. I switched to Acetaminophen and found it was much more effective at reducing fever with no apparent side effects.
kakacik 7 hours ago|
Yeah our son became eligible for creche just when covid came. All at home but we couldn't take full time care for him forever so eventually he started going in (they can start at 6 months here in Switzerland if you are lucky and get the spot, we did it gradually since 9 months). Then daughter came and same cycle.

Needless to say we had covid at least 12 times at this point, all with positive tests so no mistake there. Plus few other questionable cases without tests. Some were brutal, like first and second one, that was before vaccines, and then a recent one when we seem to have lost most of immunity. Back then I lost taste for few weeks completely and smell didn't fully come back till 6 months after (sniffing bottle of vodka did smell like forest air, even later my perfume smelled rotten). Weird times, eating nice looking gunk and trying to imagine how it tasted before.

I don't think I had flu that many times over my whole life, hate that shit with fiery passion and having small kids in creche/school is just a 24/7 virus importing service. None of our peers had it as bad as we did, no idea why the 'luck'.

farmeroy 10 hours ago||
I've known people who've overdosed on Tylenol and died. I'm not saying that ibuprofen won't give you acid reflux and won't damage your kidneys, but due to <reason> I tend to take a lot of ibuprofen and also for <reason> take another medication that constricts my arteries and for <reason> get a lot of blood/urine work done... and my kidney function is good and despite everything I'm generally healthy. So I would say, like many things, what medicines you take probably depend on your specific body and situation. Regardless, you won't die accidentally from an acute ibuprofen overdose. You just might die from taking tylenol if you don't realize your liver is already damaged for other reasons. So there you go!
JackFr 8 hours ago||
My mom fell (88 yo) X-rayed, nothing broken but ignored her history of ulcerative colitis (tough to do, given the colostomy bag she’s worn for 50 years). Sent her home with Motrin. Ended up in the hospital for two weeks with bleeding ulcers.
i_think_so 6 hours ago||
How the hell did the attending physician not see a colostomy bag during the exam?!
wordsunite 10 hours ago|||
Unless you’re in Rhabdo. If you’re in so much muscle pain and your kidneys are working overtime to clear broken down tissue and you then hit them with too much ibuprofen, then you can go into kidney failure and die accidentally.
farmeroy 10 hours ago||
At least with the folks i hang around, liver damage from years of over-drinking is probably more likely
croes 9 hours ago|||
> You just might die from taking tylenol if you don't realize your liver is already damaged for other reasons.

If you don’t realize your kidneys are already damaged you might die from kidney failure because of ibuprofen.

foobiekr 10 hours ago||
Just don't take it on an empty stomach.
burnt-resistor 9 hours ago||
That's ibuprofen. Which can be partially mitigated by famotidine.

IBU: -stomach -kidneys -bp+ -clotting --NERD --NECD --NEUD --SNIUAA --SNIDR --DRESS

APAP: -liver --DRESS

-- extreme, rare side-effects

sph 9 hours ago||
You expect us to know those acronyms?
i_think_so 6 hours ago||
I thought they were cheat codes.
shellac 5 hours ago||
--DRESS means your clothes with fall off.
alexcpn 8 hours ago||
I created this open-source application (https://alexcpn-faers-signal-detection.hf.space/) to analyse the FDA FAERS data set a few weeks back, just to do some good work and use Claude Code completely. I got roasted on Reddit for attempting this. But this is meant for specialists to use, as most platforms that analyse this data charge a lot from what I read.

FDA FAERS is the official dataset for reporting Adverse events from taking a drug. FDA adverse event reports about 2 million cases and 4,067 unique drugs

I agree the results are not easy for non medical professionals to interpret correctly. For example DEATH is very strong with Parecetemol and so is DEPENDECE. The latter because from AI it is a confounding factor. Acetaminophen/parecetemol is frequently co-formulated with opioids (like Hydrocodone or Codeine). The "Dependence" signal is likely attributed to the opioid, not the Acetaminophen itself...

Adverse Event Acetaminophen PRR (95% CI) Acetaminophen n ibuprofen PRR (95% CI) ibuprofen n ACUTE KIDNEY INJURY 0.87 (0.80-0.96) 498 4.27 (3.91-4.67) * 483 ANAPHYLACTIC REACTION 0.61 (0.51-0.72) 122 9.85 (8.90-10.90) * 382 ANGIOEDEMA 1.31 (1.13-1.53) 170 15.26 (13.77-16.92) * 378 DEATH 1.44 (1.40-1.49) 3958 0.07 (0.06-0.10) 42 DEPENDENCE 237.12 (231.51-242.88) * 39679 0.02 (0.01-0.05) 4 DEPRESSION 2.18 (2.05-2.31) * 1157 0.39 (0.29-0.52) 43 DRUG EFFECTIVE FOR UNAPPROVED INDICATION 16.77 (16.11-17.46) * 3180 44.17 (42.18-46.25) * 1921 DRUG HYPERSENSITIVITY 0.57 (0.51-0.64) 327 3.30 (2.98-3.65) * 372

cue_the_strings 3 hours ago||
It is a damn shame bordering conspiracy that metamizole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamizole, known as Analgin in eastern Europe and the Balkans, apparently also India) is not more widely available in the west. It's literally a wonder drug, the only non-narcotic (hence non-addictive) that actually relieves serious pain (including post-op) pain in my experience.

Since I've had a fair share of it in my life so far (more than 1kg of it so far, in total), and I investigated the disparaging studies and they are definitely not convincing at all; more recent ones somewhat absolve it (check the Wikipedia page).

I've never had any side effects from it, and I don't know anyone who did, unlike for any other painkiller (diclofenac, ketoprofen, ibuprofen, acetaminophen / paracetamol).

It is a medicine where I'm almost 100% sure the studies against it are intentional sabotage by pharma companies, and the vigor and persistence this is done with is really telling (lots of doctors and pharmacists in my extended family, including in regulatory bodies). The campaign against it never ends.

limbero 7 hours ago|
Cool, throughout this entire read I was thinking "I'm gonna save this, it reads a lot like dynomight". And then at the end it turns out it was dynomight all along. I guess I should read headers more carefully.
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