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Posted by Kaibeezy 1 day ago

Alberta startup sells no-tech tractors for half price(wheelfront.com)
1941 points | 648 commentspage 3
chung8123 20 hours ago|
I bought a chinese mini excavator. It is super simple and I am sure things will break on it (I already had a qc issue with the fuel gauge) but I don't fear things breaking. With the competitors the dealer had to service everything. With the chinese one I text someone on whatsapp, diagnose remotely, and they send me a part. Honestly I like this model more. If you have a lot of money the dealer is great.
SkyPuncher 17 hours ago|
Mine comes in tomorrow. When researching, I was amazed at the simplicity of these machines. The engine is essentially available at Harbor Freight, then it’s basically just a hydraulic pump and valves. When things break, I’m sure I can find a replacement part or hack something together.
hattmall 12 hours ago||
Which one did you buy?
SkyPuncher 11 hours ago||
AGT dm12x-plus.

I liked that it had the dual speed walk mode. Don't want to be creeping around the yard.

ChrisMarshallNY 5 hours ago||
I think it may have been here, where there was a story about a Toyota factory that only makes one car: a barebones, white SUV.

It’s brought by all the NPOs in the world.

It’s simple, rugged, easy to repair, and cheap. You see them, all the time, on TV.

markus_zhang 23 hours ago||
That's what I always want -- all of my appliances should look like the ones we got in the 90s/2000s. Some Chinese companies should take this niche or maybe not-niche field, sell at a premium, which hopefully is still cheaper than smart ones.
simplyluke 12 hours ago||
> Some Chinese companies should take this niche or maybe not-niche field, sell at a premium

A friends dad sold his existing business and has been making $$$ in semi-rural texas importing and selling Chinese skid loaders. This market already exists.

markus_zhang 4 hours ago||
Yeah but I don’t see many dumb appliances nowadays TBH.
gf263 22 hours ago||
Using my friends Speed Queen washer/dryer was such a revelation. I hate my Samsung washer/dryer.
markus_zhang 22 hours ago||
I bought a LG one back in 2018 and so far it's working fine. I hope it can last more than 10 years.
rkozik1989 2 hours ago||
For those of us not totally enveloped in the tech bubble I don't think this will be terribly shocking. In general, there's a sizeable and growing number of people who want products with less tech, not more. They're tired of everything being a subscription, overtly planned obsolescence, and inshitification in general.
coder97 19 hours ago||
I think the trend we are seeing with tractors and cars is a circular one that the industry isn't ready for: we moved from pure mechanical machines to "mechanical + some electronics," and we are currently in the "some mechanical + more electronics" phase. But the next logical step for longevity is a return to "mostly mechanical" interfaces powered by open standards.

The problem isn't the presence of electronics. It's the use of electronics as a proprietary layer to gatekeep physical hardware. When a tractor becomes a "software platform," the farmer loses the ability to perform basic maintenance because of DRM and encrypted ECU handshakes.

We need to treat the electronics as a component of the tool, not the owner of the tool. If the software is the only thing preventing a mechanical machine from functioning, that's not a feature but a defect

Papazsazsa 23 hours ago||
"From whence this barbarous animus?" tweeted the technologist from the cauldron in which he boiled.
culi 21 hours ago||
Love to see repairability prioritized.

The HN crowd would enjoy the Global Village Construction Kit's work on an open-source tractor

https://www.opensourceecology.org/gvcs/

https://www.opensourceecology.org/portfolio/tractor/

https://www.opensourceecology.org/microtractor-workshop/

And their other open source machines they deemed "critical for civilization"

https://www.opensourceecology.org/gvcs/gvcs-machine-index/

stackedinserter 3 hours ago|
Does this project go anywhere? Looks like it's at the same stage it was 10 years ago.
culi 4 minutes ago|||
They're not very online but they are still doing workshops and stuff in person. Their home page shows some events in 2025 but if you really wanna get involved you would probably need to connect offline. I have a friend of a friend who's involved and they seem pretty dedicated
6510 3 hours ago|||
Their internet things are quite terrible but they do workshops and build things.
maerF0x0 23 hours ago||
If the original article is of interest to you, this project might be too:

https://www.opensourceecology.org/

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Open_Source_Ecology

bryanlarsen 23 hours ago||
Is part of the appeal due to the fact that being remanufactured engines they don't need modern emissions control, aka Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)? Farmers hate DEF.
simplyluke 12 hours ago||
That's most of it. It gets lost in the right to repair conversation, I think because many of the same individuals who care about that also tend to be very pro-environmental-regulation, but one has to take a step back and acknowledge the fact that the EPA made it illegal to build this tractor new instead of with a rebuilt truck engine from the 90s. You literally cannot build a legal diesel tractor in the US that doesn't involve an ECU, sensors, DEF, and all the proprietary electronics to go along with those systems.

If it was legal to build these at industrial scale, we'd already have it in the US because there's blatant market demand for it. This is functionally no different from the shops putting 30 year old diesel engines in modern pickup trucks for the same reasons.

The emissions are so unreliable that the only legal market for vehicles without them in the US is... the federal government.

jimnotgym 6 hours ago||
The decision to lock down the ecu is quite another thing.

It could easily have been done with a basic ecu that was readable by a $20 cable to your laptop.

That being said, the DPF is the destroyer of modern engine reliability.

whalesalad 22 hours ago|||
Anyone who actually has to use their equipment to get shit done dislikes DPF/regen. It's like Windows Update --- you might be in the middle of a serious task but screech "time for a scheduled update! we dgaf what kind of critical task you were just doing, you want updates!"

Modern diesel systems equipped with DPF tech (which consumes DEF, the fluid) require a regen cycle which is kinda like an oven cleaning itself - they get super hot and burn away particulate before they can be used again. Farmers are more frustrated by the system than the fluid. In fact, DEF is really just piss (urea) which is the same kind of product that they use for fertilizer. Although the prices for urea have skyrocketed recently so perhaps they truly do hate DEF too.

The awesome thing about these 'older' Cummins engines is yes they lack DEF systems and also have mechanical fuel injection. As is commonplace with diesel, there are no spark/glow plugs either. So ostensibly once you have the engine started, it requires zero electricity or computer systems to operate. The RPM of the engine dictates everything else mechanically through gearing. This is a big win for equipment that needs to "just work". Of course they still have sensors and all kinds of systems that are kinda layered on top... but they're not strictly required. This is also why the "runaway diesel" problem exists. You cannot stop an engine like this without starving it of air or fuel.

bri3d 22 hours ago||
DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) and SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction, which uses DEF, Diesel Exhaust Fluid) are two mostly different systems. DPF traps soot in a filter which then burns the soot off into gas later (regen). SCR reduces NOx using urea.

This is important to know in the context of tractors because in the US, 25-74hp tractors generally need only DPF without SCR (there are basically three bins depending on horsepower level). This makes these midsized tractors a bit of a sweet spot for a lot of tasks; of course, you still have to deal with regen (which is where the DPF gets heated up to convert trapped soot into gas), which is annoying, but you at least don't have to fill up with DEF or risk the DEF injection system failing.

nothinkjustai 18 hours ago||
That’s exactly what I was thinking. And it makes me wonder if the future is manufactures repurposing older engines in new shells to bypass the increasingly more regulatory environments they operate in. Kind of a funny thing to think about.
SlightlyLeftPad 14 hours ago|
Can I invest? I have no need for a no-tech tractor but I would love to support a real challenger to John Deere’s near complete monopoly.
defrost 13 hours ago|
In Queensland, Australia SwarmFarm might be worth a look - they're already deep into driverless automated agriculture .. making a non John Deere tech stack.

https://www.swarmfarm.com/technology/

- West Australian grain farmer (4,500 hectares, barley, grains) reviews a fully automated driverless swarm bot in boom spray configuration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljEKN7CsjnM

SlightlyLeftPad 49 minutes ago||
That’s interesting. I’m really more curious about modern precision machines that are repairable on the field by third parties. Do you know if these would fall into that category? The main thing that makes John Deere anti-competitive and adversarial is their policy of not allowing third-party repairs.
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