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Posted by maguay 1 day ago

Email could have been X.400 times better(buttondown.com)
121 points | 124 commentspage 2
gadders 1 day ago|
My first business card when I was working for a tech company had an X.400 address on it. Nobody was memorising that. Or writing it down quickly.
ExoticPearTree 1 day ago||
This is an example of how simplicity won over features.

Not even then, when people with access to computers were probably in the thousands, would anyone liked to type "C=no; ADMD=; PRMD=uninett; O=uninett; S=alvestrand; G=harald" just like in the example of the article.

rjsw 1 day ago||
You were not supposed to type it out, you looked it up using your X.500 directory.
bombcar 1 day ago||
All we need is an x.500 directory of all addresses in the world, which won't be abused by anyone at anytime!
slackfan 1 day ago||
However did we live during the era of the White Pages phone directory.
toast0 1 day ago|||
Sure, but then you have the problem of figuring out which Sarah Connor in Los Angeles.

To say nothing of popular names.

aworks 1 day ago||
My name is not particularly common although I was the first to claim firstname.lastname@gmail.com. I've been getting email intended for other people with the same name for decades.

I've seen estimates that there are only 10,000 people with my last name in the US. Back in the days of local telephone directories, I was always the only one with that last name.

Internet scaling is an interesting thing. I don't know if I feel less unique or that I'm in an exclusive club.

kstrauser 4 hours ago||
I registered [my HN username]@yahoo.com many, many years ago. Once a year I log into that mail account and I'm always amazed at how many other people have decided to give out that email, at Yahoo! of all places, as their own. Why? Just, why?
bombcar 1 day ago|||
Spam and scam had to work on a human scale, via locals paid something resembling a living wage, not automated machines sending millions a second or people working for pennies a day.

I want a phone that can only ring if the source of the call is within artillery range.

thaumasiotes 1 day ago||
Is this an example of simplicity winning over features, or an example of features that are advertised but don't exist failing to win over the competition?

Some examples from the article:

> You could have messaged an entire organization or department

This is a mailing list.

> So it was possible, say, for one implementation of X.400 to offer X.400 features like recalling a message, in theory at least, when such guarantees would fail as soon as messages left their walled garden. But “they couldn't buck the rules of physics,” Borenstein concluded. Once a message reached another server, the X.400 implementations could say that an email was recalled or permanently deleted, but there was no way to prove that it hadn’t been backed up surreptitiously.

This is a feature that (1) is in the spec, and also (2) is impossible to implement. That's not a real feature. It's a bug in the spec.

> You don’t email with X.400 today. That is, unless you work in aviation, where AMHS communications for sharing flight plans and more are still based on X.400 standards (which enables, among other things, prioritizing messages and sending them to the tower at an airport instead of a specific individual).

This is... also a mailing list. There's nothing difficult about having an email address for the tower. That email could go to one person, or many people. What's the difference supposed to be? What "feature" are we saying X.400 has that email didn't start with?

jech 4 hours ago||
>> You could have messaged an entire organization or department

> This is a mailing list.

The way I understand it, the layering is different. In X.400, multicasting was a feature of the protocol. An SMTP mailing list, on the other hand, is an endpoint that terminates a protocol transaction, and then initiates one transaction for each final recipient.

I guess it boils down to where it is preferable to have the extra complexity: the ITU-T protocols invariably prefer to put it inside the network, while the Internet protocols prefer to put it at the endpoints. The SMTP protocol is simple, and therefore the mailing list software needs to be complex.

foresto 5 hours ago||
> The ugly addressing? It “provides solutions to certain problems and is ugly for good reason,” Betanov explains. “Make it less ugly, and it immediately loses functionality. Thus, the solution is not to make addressing nicer, but to hide it from the user,” something both internet email and X.400-powered software could easily do with headers, not so much with addresses.

Reminds me of IPv6. ;)

elzbardico 1 day ago||
Working, free implementations are better than perfect specification barelly supported only incompletely by closed, expensive implementations.
sinnickal 4 hours ago||
Having PP flashbacks right now.. You weren't there man... you don't know!
cwillu 1 day ago||
“If the history of email had gone somewhat differently, the last email you sent could have been rescinded or superseded by a newer version when you accidentally wrote the wrong thing. It could have been scheduled to arrive an hour from now. It could have auto-destructed if not read by midnight.”

That would have required a lot of changes to computing history beyond simply email, and I doubt many of them would have been improvements.

EvanAnderson 1 day ago||
The X.400 world would have had different spam economics because metered usage by your telco (who would be acting as a "Value Added Network" provider and delivering your X.400 mail) would likely have been the norm. As other comments have pointed out, this is still A Thing today with X.400 VANs being used for EDI.
computersuck 1 day ago||
More like X.400 times convoluted
dreamcompiler 1 day ago||
Gall's Law:

"A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked."

https://lawsofsoftwareengineering.com/laws/galls-law/

In my naive youth I always thought top-down design was the sensible way to build systems. But after witnessing so many of them fail miserably, I now agree with Gall.

beng-nl 1 day ago|
Well said. And similarly, it always seems to be the simple, bottom up, “let’s just build something simple and minimal that works” projects that get iterated on that do can do well, and start to strain when the technical debt and complexity accumulate.
a-dub 1 day ago|
i once did a contract for a company that built a product around connectors for legacy lan e-mail products and an x.400 mta. it was a gigantic steaming pile of shit and made me appreciate the simple internet protocols so much more than i already did.