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Posted by calcifer 8 hours ago

How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences(nate.leaflet.pub)
172 points | 184 commentspage 4
everyone 7 hours ago|
Does kinda read like an engineer just had their 1st encounter with management.
oa335 5 hours ago||
Morality trumps sociability, something piece doesn’t mention.

E.g. “ when ambiguous, assume intent is malicious, ignorant, or amoral”

Most immoral actors cloak deliberately cloak themselves in ambiguity.

legacynl 5 hours ago|
> Morality trumps sociability, something piece doesn’t mention.

IDK if I agree with that. If you could dissuade a nazi by biting your tongue and keeping the conversation going, wouldn't that be the morally right thing to do?

> Most immoral actors cloak deliberately cloak themselves in ambiguity.

Yes, but that still doesn't mean you should assume everybody to be one of those 'immoral' actors. Assume that somebody is normal, if they do something that proofs they're an 'immoral actor', only then assume that they're being dishonest.

throwanem 7 hours ago||
The real HN discussion guidelines.
isoprophlex 7 hours ago|
Dont you tell me how to discuss anything on here!
analog8374 5 hours ago||
This is satire. He is describing the attitude generally demonstrated on social media.
ashtonshears 7 hours ago||
This is soley a list of how to be explicitly negative internally and externally, the people in this thread equating it to disorders need to re-think the text. Its a list of what not to do as a human.

With respect to all; there is an incredible amount of subtle communications that go into standard conversations

venk12 6 hours ago||
that list fits the bill for becoming POTUS
perching_aix 6 hours ago||
The anti-social behaviors I'm seeing are a lot more primitive (engagement and reaction bait, and other "simulated conduct" as I like to call it), and the people engaging in them don't really need a guide. Sarcastic rants like this always strike me as somewhere between tonedeaf and insulting as a result. You know it perfectly well that it's those who should be minding these the most are the ones that never will (and won't even be reading this).

That said, if I may be so hypocritical to add to the list, the heavy reliance on pointing out fallacies is a pretty big one. A lot of the times it simply degenerates conversations into logical golf, with no semblance of trying to actually understand the other person remaining. Though in those cases, that intent was usually never really present to begin with.

fragmede 7 hours ago||
As someone who identifies as autistic, after particularly notable social encounters, I describe them, best I can, to ChatGPT, and damned if the thing doesn't explain why people reacted the way they did so I can do better next time.
reactordev 7 hours ago||
As someone who identifies as autistic, I learned to smile and just listen. I’ll ask questions and try and put my little anecdotes in but for the most part I just let other people talk. Works reasonably well. I usually run afoul when the situation is serious and I show up with my smile.
bananaflag 7 hours ago|||
What about when people start making fun of you for being silent?
ashtonshears 7 hours ago||
Given the context of the discussion is about lacking social cues, its not possible to know the social setting to give you specific advice.

However, I would suggest considering if the ‘making fun’ is in casual conversation or truly adversary.

In casual conversation of someone making jest about your lack of speaking, just smile and say you are having a good time listening and hanging out.

If they are actually making fun of you, never associate with those people again, they suck

reactordev 3 hours ago||
Emphasis on that last part. Hurt people hurt people, don’t let them hurt you too.
bityard 6 hours ago||||
As someone who is not autistic, just tends towards very socially awkward, this is what I do as well. Active listening is a skill I developed by accident out of not having much to contribute to most conversations. As time went on, I saw that most people appreciate just being heard and worked on it more deliberately.

It's not all puppies and rainbows of course, because some people can't hold a conversation without being led through it by the hand, which is exhausting. And others think everyone else is always so fascinated with what they have to say that they never stop for you to get a word in edgewise.

But, active listening accounts for the majority of my social skills, for better or worse.

gib444 7 hours ago|||
But smile in the /correct/ way, else you'll be judged for smiling weirdly.

Sigh

reactordev 6 hours ago||
Smile like you just saw a puppy, you’ll be fine.
doubled112 5 hours ago||
Instructions unclear. I don't usually smile at puppies, I point them out to my wife. She does the smiling for us. What if she isn't there? Who will do the smiling?
reactordev 5 hours ago||
What makes you happy when you see it? Imagine that.
balamatom 2 hours ago||
I don't know about you, but things that make me happy and things that automatically make me bare my teeth at them are not the same things. Deal with it.
unsupp0rted 7 hours ago|||
I've tried this and I'm not sure its explanation is useful. It wasn't there and it only knows what I tell it, so it's missing a lot of context clues.

And I'm probably less autistic than the average HNer.

coffeebeqn 7 hours ago|||
I think that’s how everyone learns. Making mistakes and figuring out why that turned out poorly. Some are more innately good at it than others. I’m not particularly but I can learn from mistakes
TheOtherHobbes 7 hours ago||
A lot of people assume everyone else has it worked out.

But people mostly don't have it all worked out.

There are specific demographics who do.

Some are naturally gifted at social interactions and/or grew up in environments which taught them how to socialise effectively.

Others are charming narcissists - likeable, high status, attractive on the outside, monsters on the inside. They can appear effortless because they don't care about anything except presenting an image, so they get get very skilled at it.

Most everyone else has some social anxiety or frustration and makes more or less obvious social mistakes at least occasionally.

sublinear 7 hours ago|||
Self-help, therapy, etc. wouldn't be as big of a business if it was just autistic people doing that.
markus_zhang 7 hours ago||
Maybe people are social animals just because they have to.
esseph 6 hours ago|||
This seems like a good way to learn and grow.
cubefox 7 hours ago||
Yeah. In the past I assumed that some people just sometimes randomly behave aggressively towards me for no good reason. But usually the reason is probably that I was unintentionally rude or strange with some sort of nonverbal communication or similar.
tamimio 2 hours ago||
I never understood why “anti social” is seen as a negative trait, full of prejudice too (I mean, read that garbage article, passive aggressive BS too). Most people who built or achieved great or innovative things were anti social or at least didn’t waste their time bar hopping.. when people want to detox and disconnect, they go anti social, monks gurus you name it, also live in solitude, being alone will make you wiser and more creative if you are smart, and crazier if you are an average person, and covid lockdowns were a good example. From my observation, the more social a person is the more average they are, mediocre, wasting time in mostly useless interactions and sometimes even negative with all the peer pressure it brings, in fact, I would even argue the more social you are the more you become an outlier, a walking NPC who’s constantly under peer pressure, anxiety, and depression when not meeting impossible expectations. It’s a large scale gaslighting making a spectrum where an extrovert is good, introvert is bad, meanwhile the ones who are lifting the society and keeping it running are the introvert nerds.
sublinear 7 hours ago|
This list is actually just narcissism combined with low self-esteem.

For younger introverts, none of this behavior is necessarily anti-social if the group all shares these same traits. The moment a member of that group has any higher self-esteem than the rest, they will either see that individual as "cool" or as a threat (or both).

To be truly anti-social is to either completely isolate yourself, or be unrelentingly and unreasonably hostile in all interactions. This list is neither. It's just passive aggressive and a lot of ego.

finghin 7 hours ago||
I think the most important part of being antisocial is the ulterior motive for their hostility and refusal to situate themselves in an equitable or respectful social framework, which is invariably benefit to oneself. The type of benefit that an anti-social person seeks out is probably not like the usual suspects, though.
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