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Posted by claxo 11 hours ago

I'm done making desktop applications (2009)(www.kalzumeus.com)
141 points | 171 commentspage 2
qq66 10 hours ago|
Nothing in this article is wrong, but worth noting that pre-AI, the companies that most significantly transformed the way we use our computers (Slack, Spotify, VS Code, etc.) did ship desktop apps.
xp84 10 hours ago||
“Desktop Apps”? I’d say pre-Electron, the ones that existed that far back shipped desktop apps, but for the past 10-15 years it’s all been Electron slop, which hardly qualify as “desktop apps” in my book.

If anything, it’s my very faint hope that AI would give companies - especially non-software companies - the bandwidth to release two real native apps instead of just 2 builds of a shitty Electron app. Fat chance though, I think, not least because companies love to use their “bRaNdInG” on everything - so the native look and feel a real app gives you “for free” is a downside for the clowns that do the visual design for most companies.

data-ottawa 10 hours ago|||
For what it’s worth, I tried making a GTK4 app. I got started, created a window, created a header bar, then went to add a url/path entry widget and everything fell apart.

Entry suggestions/completions are formally deprecated with no replacement since 2022. When I did get them working on the deprecated API there was an empty completion option that would segfault if clicked. The default behaviour didn’t hide completions on window unfocus, so my completions would hover over any other open window. There was seemingly no way to disambiguate tab vs enter events… it just sucked.

So after adding one widget I abandoned the project. It felt like the early releases of SwiftUI where you could add a list view but then would run into weird issues as soon as you tried adding stuff to it.

Similarly trying to build an app for macOS practically depends on Swift by Sundell Hacking with Swift or others to make up for Apple’s lack of documentation in many areas. For years stuff like NSColor vs Color and similar API boundaries added friction, and the native macOS SwiftUI components just never felt normal while I tried making apps.

As heavy as web libraries and electron are, at least work mostly out of the box.

IshKebab 8 hours ago||
There are definitely a shortage of good GUI toolkits - making one is a huge undertaking. GTK is mediocre, as you discovered.

QtWidgets is extremely good though, even if it is effectively in maintenance mode.

Avalonia also seems good too though I haven't used it myself.

hn_acc1 6 hours ago|||
I've used Qt off and on, and it's generally worked as advertised. Although when drawing very short lines on a canvas way back when (~2004), it wouldn't do a great job and I had to hack in custom routines that did a much better job.

For prototyping / one-offs, I've always enjoyed working in Tcl/Itcl and Tk/Itk - object oriented Tcl with a decent set of widgets. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it's pretty portable (should mostly work on every platform with minor changes), has a way to package up standalone executables, can ship many-files-as-one with an internal filesystem, etc..

Of course, I spent ~15 years in EDA, so it's much more comfortable than for most people, but it can easily be integrated into C/C++ as well with SWIG, etc.

robinsonb5 6 hours ago|||
> I've always enjoyed working in Tcl/Itcl and Tk/Itk

In the near future I need to lash up a windows utility to generate a bunch of PDF files from a CSV (in concert with GhostScript), with specific filenames. I was trying to figure out the best approach and hadn't even considered Tcl and Tk - with Itcl you might have just given me a new rabbithole to explore! Thanks! (...I think!)

hn_acc1 5 hours ago||
I hope it works out! It's amazing how far Tcl/Tk has come since I "had" to use it as a wrapper around an X11 window back on an SGI Irix, using Tcl scripting to interface to an OpenGL backend. I think that was like 7.3.x or something in 1994. And it was pretty cool back then already! The team around Tcl is small, but dedicated and brilliant, IMHO.
hermitcrab 5 hours ago|||
>Although when drawing very short lines on a canvas way back when (~2004), it wouldn't do a great job and I had to hack in custom routines that did a much better job.

QCanvas (or was it QGraphicsCanvas?) has long since been replace with QGraphicsScene, which is much more capable and doesn't suffer from pixelation issues.

hn_acc1 5 hours ago||
Probably. We paid thousands / year for the developer seat in our startup, and in the end, it wasn't great. I did manage to make the Tcl/Tk event loop and the Qt event loop work together, so we could have Tk windows inside a Qt app!
hermitcrab 5 hours ago||
There is a small business licence.
hermitcrab 8 hours ago|||
Qt is still under very active development. Although there seems to be a lot more emphasis on QML than the widgets side of things for some time.
nozzlegear 7 hours ago|||
> If anything, it’s my very faint hope that AI would give companies - especially non-software companies - the bandwidth to release two real native apps instead of just 2 builds of a shitty Electron app.

Anthropic has the resources of a fully armed and operational Claude Mythos (eyeroll), but they still choose to shit out an electron app on all of their users instead of going native like their competitors have done.

duped 10 hours ago||
All of those examples are web apps, two of them started on the web itself, and none of them transformed anything about how we used our computers (slack replaced a number of competitors, spotify is iTunes for the web, and VS code is a smaller jetbrains)
ksherlock 11 hours ago||
[2009]
rustcleaner 6 hours ago||
Never depend on anything you can't later privateer when the publisher decides to retroactively change the deal (or worse: when they become a subscription "service"). Minimize regular payment sinks. Owning your own infrastructure will always be cheaper in the long run; when you rent, you're paying the cost of ownership plus maintenance plus profit. Sure there may be an economy of scale, but what are you trading for that scale (loss of privacy, loss of sovereignty, loss of ownership, loss of control)?

Just. Don't. Subscribe.

Simple!

Animats 7 hours ago||
From the article: "for the last three years I’ve sold Bingo Card Creator.

That's a job for a web page. It doesn't need to be installed.

Decabytes 6 hours ago||
Flutter has brought the joy of desktop gui programming back for me. Especially in this vibe coding era, building all those apps that only really have value to me has never been easier. And seeing the support for Flutter from Canonical has been nice. They’ve been helping make flutter on Linux better
yshamrei 10 hours ago||
I would like to go back to 2009 =) The world was definitely simpler, and Bitcoin was cheaper =)
QuantumNomad_ 10 hours ago||
Please pick up a few bitcoins for me too when you go there
xp84 10 hours ago||
Realizing I could frickin mine enough bitcoins overnight back then to probably be set for life (maybe for multiple generations) now, is one of my biggest life regrets. I assume it’s shared with all other people who were into tech back then but dismissed bitcoin as stupid, as I did.
werdnapk 10 hours ago|||
You simply can't get hung up on what could have been. Same applies to trying to time the stock market... should have bought, should have sold. Best thing is to know there's nothing that can be done about the past and move along and deal with what you can do now instead.
xp84 9 hours ago||
You're right. What gets me though is that unlike the stock market, bitcoin was an incredibly rare occurrence where anyone could have gotten extraordinarily rich without even incurring any risk! (besides a couple evenings spent learning how to use it.) Whereas to have $10MM today in GOOG stock, I would have had to invest over $300k in 2010.
ux266478 8 hours ago||
> without even incurring any risk!

That's not true at all, any number of things could have killed bitcoin in its infancy. The stakes were just low. Somewhere out there is a lost collection of wallets of mine, collectively holding ~100btc ($1000 at the time). If regulators cracked down hard, that 100btc would have become just as worthless and either way I'd be out $1000.

"Risk" is an epistemic claim about the future taking the worse path. Obviously looking back it looks like risk-free money. That's not how it looked at the time. The "currency of the future" thing was always niche, especially after the crash in 2013, until a much larger cultural shift happened around 2015-ish.

Plenty of people will chime in with early bitcoin stories, and how they always believed it was going to go to the moon, etc. I always find it curious because my memory of the time period is that it was a means to an end, and that's how the overwhelming majority saw it and treated it. Funnily enough, it was thanks to that overwhelming majority that led to it being worth anything at all. If it was just a bunch of yahoos clamoring about the "currency of the future" thing, it probably would have gone absolutely fucking nowhere. The irony that the yahoos ended up becoming the majority I think is underappreciated.

CobrastanJorji 6 hours ago||||
Every year since around 2014, friends and family would ask whether they should buy Bitcoin, and every year I told them that I had looked into Bitcoin, I fully understood what Bitcoin was and how it worked, and I recommended that they not invest in Bitcoin because it was stupid. And every year, my advice has been disastrously wrong. Who knows, maybe 2026 will be the first time I'm right.
AngryData 9 hours ago|||
I put my compute in those days to help do some kind of protein folding simulation, definitely should of been bitcoin.
databasa 10 hours ago||
So true, no real SaaS, no heavy cloud infrastructures
rossant 10 hours ago||
I was curious why AI wasn't mentioned. Then I noticed the date: 2009.
wslh 10 hours ago|
And, I also I think many of the mobile and web apps will end up in prompting in the next few years.
righthand 10 hours ago||
I’m actually hopping on the desktop applications train. Though not for money. I just think the browser is becoming a surveillance plague of computing and we need MORE high quality desktop software not built on the invasive web stack to counter it.
taude 8 hours ago||
We should do more of this, hacker news, surface 17 year old articles and then debate like they were written yesterday!
mattfrommars 8 hours ago|
I have lot and hate relationship with windows native desktop application. As a kid, I use to look for something GUI application and .exe application since they are breeze to run and just felt right. Now in my day job, I just dislike developing for windows desktop application - partly probably the application is massive and super slow to develop or just there isn't a lot of investment from the company stand point into the product.
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