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Posted by milkglass 9 hours ago

The West forgot how to make things, now it’s forgetting how to code(techtrenches.dev)
646 points | 386 commentspage 3
pabs3 7 hours ago|
Reminds me of this post:

https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/

heinternets 7 hours ago||
When you've run out of ideas just portray "the west" as some monolithic portrait in some decline-porn fan fiction as clickbait.
simonask 5 hours ago|
I'm so tired of this, it's such a lazy take. "The West" is a giant, incongruous collection of wildly disparate nations and cultures with wildly different circumstances, policies, histories, and cultures.

It feels a lot like someone has a cursory understanding of American politics, and thinks the US is somehow representative. It's not, it is an outlier by every statistical measure. If you want to understand the world, you need to start by forgetting everything you know about the US.

raincole 7 hours ago||
First of all this is clearly AI-assist writing (being charitable here).

And the premise makes no sense anyway. The only risk of forgetting how to make shells is when other countries are making shells more efficiently. Non-western countries are not going to reject AI-coding, nor are they going to make software more efficiently by hand.

0xpgm 7 hours ago||
Programmers in non-western countries may not be able to afford $100 per month on vibe coding.

They may keep taking the longer and harder route of a mixture of AI and hand coding.

alansaber 3 hours ago|||
They'll find a way. If it's not the chiptole bot, the enormous volume of low-effort AI implementations will provide a free token layer.
lpcvoid 2 hours ago||
>Non-western countries are not going to reject AI-coding

If they are smart, they will. And I think they are smart.

fauigerzigerk 4 hours ago||
The defense analogy makes absolutely no sense. All the examples are of production shutdowns or reductions. Knowledge was lost because people retired and not replaced at all. None of it was lost to automation.

Automation is the exact opposite of tying knowledge to people. It's extracting knowledge from people and transferring it to a machine that can continue to produce the goods.

Yes, AI can lead to problems and some of these problems will be related to gaps in knowledge that was thought to be obsolete when it really wasn't. But that's a totally different problem on a totally different scale from what happened with defense production after the end of the cold war.

Nobody is shutting down or reducing software production. On the contrary, we're going to be making a lot more of it.

matwood 2 hours ago|
Exactly. The US hasn't forgotten how to manufacture, in fact a ton of manufacturing happens in the US. What's happened is that it's been automated. And automation is one of the better ways to extract knowledge from a person who will one day switch jobs, retire or pass away.
Liftyee 4 hours ago||
I wonder if the real problem is short-term thinking in culture and incentivised by markets. By optimising next quarter's profits over investing in long-term growth and capability, things like this happen.
eolgun 5 hours ago||
The Fogbank example is the most chilling part. It's not just that they lost the people — they lost the ability to know what they didn't know. Nobody could even write down what was missing because the knowledge was never formalized in the first place.

The junior hiring collapse compounds this. Senior engineers develop judgment partly by watching juniors make mistakes and correcting them. Remove that loop and you don't just lose future seniors — you quietly degrade the current ones.

The 0.18% recruiting conversion rate mentioned here tracks with what I see in compliance and security engineering too. "Can you tell when the AI is confidently wrong?" is now the most important interview question, and almost nobody can answer it well.

muragekibicho 5 hours ago|
The junior hiring collapse is all so bizarre. I graduated recently and my career prospects are jarringly limited.

I thought I'd go back for a Masters/PhD but then Trump mercurially defunded lots of STEM grad programs. Ngl, I found myself stuck. Zero job openings, zero PhD program openings. It's all so frustrating.

eolgun 4 hours ago||
[dead]
julik 2 hours ago||
But - albeit briefly - a lot of value for the shareholders has been created
netfortius 7 hours ago||
This is why a comprehensive computer science degree is necessary. Seeing and working only with the trees leads to destroying some forests, eventually.
ianberdin 4 hours ago|
I don’t know. Partly true. I came to web development, when low level things solved: frameworks, ORMs, OSs, databases. I don’t know sql nor c++ well. But I can create a system, a value based on the abstractions. Everyone told me: Ruslan, you don’t know SQL, what a shame! Well I do not have problems and did not have about it.

Probably we are going to be fine with AI abstraction too. People will use it, stuck with problems, dig deeper, learn, improve, same as we had with frameworks and its source code.

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