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Posted by senaevren 1 day ago

Who owns the code Claude Code wrote?(legallayer.substack.com)
429 points | 393 commentspage 2
jhbadger 1 day ago|
This is of course assuming you take AI-generated code unchanged. But you don't, in my experience. And that generates a new work fully copyrightable even if the original wasn't. Just like how the fad a decade or so ago of taking Tolstoy and Jane Austen works and adding new elements -- "Android Karenina" and "Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters" are copyrighted works even if the majority of the text in them was from public domain sources.
FartyMcFarter 1 day ago||
The article addresses this explicitly:

> Works predominantly generated by AI without meaningful human authorship are not eligible for copyright protection

Note the word "predominantly", and the discussion that follows in the article about what the courts and the copyright office said.

wongarsu 1 day ago||
Skimming over the article, it's a lot about what the copyright office said and very little about what courts said. But the opinion of the copyright office doesn't have any legal force. Regulations passed by the copyright office would be binding, but their opinions are just opinions. We will have to wait until relevant court cases reach a conclusion. And so far running litigation isn't even about that question, it's about infringing the rights of works that are in the training data
Luker88 1 day ago|||
No such assumption is made in the article.

Nor does it give a single answer.

Mere prompting is still not enough for copyright, and the problem is unsolved on how much contribution a human needs to make to the generated code.

In the case for generated images copyright has been assigned only to the human-modified parts.

Even worse, it will be slightly different in other nations.

The only one that accepts copyright for the unchanged output of a prompt is China.

ModernMech 1 day ago||
Here's a question I have: if the AI generated image is of a character of which you own the IP, don't you have protections based on the character regardless of who gets copyright protections from authorship of the image?
sarchertech 23 hours ago||
Yeah if you have a copyright on the character, the AI generated image doesn’t change that. It doesn’t give you more of less protection than you already had.
beej71 22 hours ago||
IANAL but this sounds more like trademark territory.
sarchertech 20 hours ago||
You can also trademark a character if it’s used as a brand identifier in commerce.

There are far more characters protected by copyright than trademark.

conartist6 1 day ago|||
I'm sure it's not quite that simple. Only parts the parts of those knock-off works that aren't public domain could be copyrightable. If you only own the copyright to ten lines in a 10k line codebase, then it's probably fair use for someone else to just to take the whole thing.

Plus what if Anna Karenina was GPL?

d1sxeyes 18 hours ago||
Anna Karenina is public domain, assuming you’re talking about the original? If you translate it then maybe you could release it under GPL, but bit odd?
conartist6 13 hours ago||
I think you missed the "what if". It was just a point about how the constructed scenario might be different to the real scenario. Most AIs are not trained only on public-domain work.
d1sxeyes 8 hours ago||
I didn't, but not sure what the point is. Maybe I missed something else?
brianwawok 1 day ago|||
You use humans to edit AI code? When you level up you are just using AI to write, AI to review, AI to edit, AI to test. Not a lot of steps left for meat bags.
mathgeek 1 day ago|||
You're forgetting that you need coffee/tea/mate to fuel the button pushers. The Jetsons predicted this decades ago.
gchamonlive 1 day ago||||
AI for review is terrible, and by no fault of their own. It's our job to specify and document intention, domain and the right problems to solve, and that is just hard to do. No getting around it. That's job security for us meat bags.
ModernMech 1 day ago|||
AI to write - code is buggy and not what I asked for

AI to review - shallow minutia and bikeshedding

AI to edit - wrote duplicated functions that already existed

AI to test - special casing and disabling code to pass the narrow tests it wrote

AI report - "Everything looks good, ship it!"

throwatdem12311 1 day ago|||
Ok what about all the Anthropic’s engineers who say they don’t write code at all and it’s 100% AI-generated?
gchamonlive 1 day ago|||
> This is of course assuming you take AI-generated code unchanged.

How much code do you need to change in order for it to be original? One line? 10%? More than 50%?

That's arbitrary and quite unproductive convo to be honest.

ninkendo 1 day ago||
> That's arbitrary and quite unproductive convo to be honest.

Yeah but that’s what the legal system ostensibly does. Splitting fine hairs over whether a derived work is “transformative” is something lawyers and judges have been arguing and deciding for centuries. Just because it’s hard to define a bright red line, doesn’t mean the decision is arbitrary. Courts will mull over whether a dotted quarter note on the fourth bar of a melody constitutes an independent work all day long. It seems absurd, but deciding blurry lines are what courts are built to handle.

gchamonlive 22 hours ago|||
EDIT: I changed my argument completely.

That makes no sense because what if you refactor your code ad infinitum using AI? You spin up a working implementation, then read through the code, catalog the changes like interface, docs, code quality and patterns and delegate to the AI to write what you would.

It's 100% AI code and it's 100% human code. That distinction is what's counterproductive.

stvltvs 23 hours ago|||
Because at the end of the day, someone has to own the code, so some lines have to be drawn no matter how arbitrary they seem.
mzl 22 hours ago|||
If you modify the work, that creates a derived work from whatever copyright the original works has, not a new work that is fully copyrightable.

As the article says in the Tl;DR at the top the code may be contaminated by open source licenses

> Agentic coding tools like Claude Code, Cursor, and Codex generate code that may be uncopyrightable, owned by your employer, or contaminated by open source licenses you cannot see

exe34 19 hours ago|||
> This is of course assuming you take AI-generated code unchanged. But you don't, in my experience. And that generates a new work fully copyrightable even if the original wasn't.

That's not how copyright works. The modified version is derivative. You can't just take the Linux kernel, make some changes, and slap a new license on it.

6stringmerc 23 hours ago||
Wrong. This territory was heavily covered in music before this code concept - it has to be “transformative” in the eyes of the law. Even going in and cleaning up code or adding 10-25% new code won’t pass this threshold. Don't bother arguing with me on this, just accept reality and deal with it.
jhbadger 21 hours ago||
My copy of "Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters" is explicitly listed as being copyrighted by Ben H. Winters in 2009 despite the majority of the words being Austen's, though. Perhaps music has different rules compared to text. I suspect Winters and his publisher have investigated the legality of this more than either of us have.
acdha 19 hours ago||
Jane Austen died long enough ago that her works are in the public domain, so Winters did not need a license to use it. That does not mean that he gained rights to her work: if he tried to sue someone for use of anything which appeared in the original, he would lose in court because it’s easy to show that copies made before he was born had the same text. This also how they prevent people trying to extend copyright by making minor changes to an existing work: the new copyright only covers the additions.

There’s a very accessible summary of the United States rules here:

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

ottah 19 hours ago||
My opinion, copyright has mattered very little in the corporate world. Copyright is effectively meaningless with SaaS, and the compiled software ran on your machine is protected more by technical controls and EULAs. A world where copyright didn't exist for software would look nearly the same for the commercial world. Trade secrets, NDAs, and employment contracts bind workers more than copyright. The only thing that the question of copyright has real world impact is open source, but even then only for more restrictive licenses such as gpl.
thyrsus 13 hours ago||
What is being licensed by the End User License Agreement (EULA) is the copyright on the code and its artefacts (executable bytes, etc.) - you can't have an EULA without having the copyright to license.
pocksuppet 14 hours ago||
Plus companies just violate GPL everywhere billions of times with impunity (see: every phone ever) and nothing happens to them.
jerleth 6 hours ago||
> What to preserve: Commit messages that describe what you changed and why, not just what the AI generated. “Restructured Claude’s module architecture, rejected initial state management approach, rewrote error handling from scratch” is evidence. “Add rate limiting module” is not.

> The second commit message versus the first is the difference between a defensible authorship claim and a clean “Claude wrote this” record.

That makes no sense to me, as the commit message is probably LLM generated as well. (and even easier to generate as it doesn't have to compile or pass automated tests).

palata 1 day ago||
One question I have is this: if an employee produces code predominantly generated by AI, it means that it is not copyrightable. Does that mean that the employee can take that code and publish it on the Internet?

Or is it still IP even if it is not copyrightable? That would feel weird: if it's in the public domain, then it's not IP, is it?

BlackFly 1 day ago||
A recipe isn't copyrightable but is still protected under trade secret law. I imagine that the same would apply. I think the major difference with software copyright is that I can just decompile your binary or copy a binary and give it to other people. For SAAS companies that don't distribute binaries, I imagine they basically have the same protections against rogue employees.
cillian64 1 day ago|||
To look at it another way, just because some code I work on at my job is derived from open source MIT-licensed code doesn't mean I personally have the right to distribute it if my company doesn't want me to. I'd guess this comes under some generic "confidential information" clause in the employment contract.
palata 23 hours ago||
Hmm your example is different: if you manually write code, there is a copyright for it whether it is derived from an MIT-licence or not. If you don't own that copyright (because your employer does), then you don't have the right to distribute it because it is not your code.

If you generate the same code with AI, now it does not have a copyright. If it depends on an MIT library, then the MIT library has a copyright and you have to honour the licence. But the code you produced does not have a copyright (because it was generated by an AI). And therefore nobody "owns" it. My question is: can your employer prevent you from distributing something they don't own?

sgc 11 hours ago||
This is a very long-standing and AFAIK never explicitly decided copyright and human rights question: If something is Public Domain, are contracts restricting distribution valid? Is our right to information or knowledge a fundamental human right that is not permissible to take from others, such that restrictions greater than those imposed directly by the State are invalid? In a healthy society, "I have created an extraction machine and your actions are hindering my extraction" is not a valid argument. So at the very least contracts restricting rights to public dmoain works should be allowed only with heavy restrictions as to when, how, and for how long they are binding - much like the legality of non-competes have has steadily reduced in many places in recent years.

CC0 came about in part because of this ambiguity. To deal with it, part of CC0 basically says - even if there would still be restrictions to this if it were only in the public domain, I renounce those theoretical rights.

Outside the underdeveloped legal framework, I believe knowledge and truth is like life, and human society has some continued philosophical growth required here.

senaevren 1 day ago|||
That is exactly the right question and the answer is genuinely strange. Uncopyrightable work falls into the public domain, which means anyone can use it, copy it, or build on it freely. The employer can still call it a trade secret and protect it through confidentiality obligations in employment contracts, but that protection is contractual rather than property-based. A trade secret loses protection the moment it is disclosed. So the employer's claim over purely AI-generated code is essentially: "you cannot share this" rather than "we own this." Those are meaningfully different legal positions, and most companies have not thought through which one they actually have.
zvr 22 hours ago|||
Yes, and if the same come ends up in someone else's hands, they can state "we didn't steal it, a GenAI generated it for us, the same as it did for you". Given the non-deterministic operation of current GenAI systems (a major difference from compilers), it would probably be hard to prove either position.
palata 23 hours ago|||
So employees are not allowed to distribute the code, but if it leaks, then it is public and the company cannot do anything about it. Correct? That's what happened to Anthropic I think?
ModernMech 1 day ago||
Presumably company policy would be implicated here, not copyright law. Whether or not it's copyrightable, what you create using AI is work product.
qsera 19 hours ago||
More interesting question is "Who wants to own it"...

The answer is probably "Nobody"!

nine_k 19 hours ago||
Depending on the scale. If you ask Clause to one-shot an app from a nebulous description, you get a prototype which you would understandably loathe to own the code of. If you plan carefully and limit the scope, you get code that you understand, can approve of, and are okay owning further down the line.
burnte 19 hours ago||
I spent two and a half hours writing up a detailed outline for a small webapp. Claude popped it out in one shot 100% working., I added features after but the time you spend on a good outline saves hours later.
jumploops 18 hours ago|||
At what point is liability the only "job" left for humans?
B1FF_PSUVM 18 hours ago||
I think it was tor.com that last year had a story where the newbie hired for the corporate HR dept ended up being the last human left after all others were replaced.

Ah, here we go, courtesy of google-ml: '"Human Resources" by Adrian Tchaikovsky, published on Reactor[...] https://reactormag.com/human-resources-adrian-tchaikovsky/ '

onlyrealcuzzo 19 hours ago||
Presumably, every company that has non-LGPL CC code in production wants to own it...
nine_k 19 hours ago||
"Own" as in "be responsible for". Nobody is too keen to own a pile of semi-working trash, and extensive vide-coding can produce such piles easily.
curt15 19 hours ago|||
Not sure why this is being down voted. Outsourcing work doesn't also outsource accountability.
qsera 19 hours ago||||
Yea, that is how I meant it.
onlyrealcuzzo 13 hours ago||||
> "Own" as in "be responsible for". Nobody is too keen to own a pile of semi-working trash

And yet that was the state of software at every company I worked at before FAANG, and even a good amount there...

guywithahat 18 hours ago|||
Anyone can produce low-quality code, with or without AI. Agents have gotten exceptionally good however, and everyone should be including them in their workflow if they're able to.
nine_k 18 hours ago||
Agents are more prolific. As with any power tool, they increase both your ability to build and to wreak havoc, depending on how you handle them.
bandrami 6 hours ago||
This is a big question that makes my employer nervous about using LLM-generated code, along with the even-more-unresolved question "what happens if the LLM outputs an algorithm that is protected by patent?" (particularly worrying because we know the base training included patent descriptions.) Questionable copyright can often be worked around (particularly since we don't distribute source) but infringing on a patent can destroy a company.
daishi55 1 day ago||
I’m no lawyer but I feel that meta, my employer, wouldn’t be letting us go hog-wild with Claude code if they weren’t completely confident that they fully owned the outputs, whether we change it or not.
sarchertech 23 hours ago||
There’s so much FOMO right now around AI that no one is thinking clearly. I wouldn’t be so confident in your company.
daishi55 11 hours ago|||
I would bet you any amount of money that metas ownership over CC-generated code is never challenged or threatened
sarchertech 11 hours ago||
Ok since you’re that confident—ten thousand to one odds. I’ll put up $100.
user34283 18 hours ago|||
To evaluate the legal risks of using AI generated code, let’s consider how many lawsuits there have been over these concerns.

Inadvertent copyleft license violations: probably 0 lawsuits

Competitor copied your software, you could not defend your rights in court because it was made with AI: probably also 0

Users of agentic AI for software development: >10 million

The thinking here seems pretty clear to me.

sarchertech 16 hours ago||
This is a terrible take. Complex litigation takes longer to play out than the time span that agents have existed.
senaevren 23 hours ago||
Meta's confidence almost certainly rests on the employment contracts and IP assignment clauses, not on a legal theory that AI output is inherently copyrightable. The enterprise agreement with Anthropic assigns outputs to the licensee. The employment contract assigns work product to Meta. Those two documents together give Meta a defensible ownership position regardless of the authorship question. The interesting gap is for developers using personal accounts or consumer plans on side projects, where neither of those documents exists.
beej71 22 hours ago||
I don't understand how a company can have IP copyright rights on code that is inherently uncopyrightable (in the unlikely event scotus rules that way).
elfly 9 hours ago||
Worst case, meta will sue the programmer who produced infringing code.

I mean if the code is not copyrighteable that does not mean anything; it's just public domain code except that meta will just use good old security by obscurity to protect it. If somehow a meta programmer vibes code, say, VVVVVV, and Terry Cavanagh recognizes it on his facebook feed and sues meta, and wins, all that will happen is that meta will take down the copy of VVVVVV, will fire and sue the engineer that vibe coded it and call it a day.

vicchenai 12 hours ago||
The M&A angle is the one that's actually going to force clarity on this. Most companies using AI tooling haven't thought about it at all until a term sheet shows up with an IP rep they can't back up. That's when "who owns this" stops being a philosophy question.
raggi 6 hours ago||
Lawyers I have spoken to have stated strongly that they believe collective works doctrine will provide strong protections for most mature and sizable software. I see no mention of these considerations here.
e12e 1 day ago|
Seems to gloss over other kinds of contamination, beyond GPL code. Code from pirated text books, the problem with the entire language model being trained on copyright data, and on the possibility of the training data containing various copyrighted code.
embedding-shape 1 day ago|
> Code from pirated text books

Anthropic "solved" this by intermingling the texts extracted from pirated books (illegal) with texts extracted from the physical books they bought and destroyed (legal), so no one can clearly say if the copyrighted material it spits out came from a legal source or not. Everyone rejoiced.

thyrsus 13 hours ago|||
I've seen copyright notices that explicitly forbid use for AI training. Would this "transformation" argument still hold in such cases?

For example:

No Generative AI Training Use

For avoidance of doubt, Author reserves the rights, and grants no rights to, reproduce and/or otherwise use the Work in any manner for purposes of training artificial intelligence or machine learning technologies to generate text, text to speech, voice, or audio including without limitation, technologies that are capable of generating works in the same style or genre as the Work, unless individual or entity obtains Author’s specific and express permission to do so. Nor does any individual or entity have the right to sublicense others to reproduce and/or otherwise use the Work in any manner for the purposes of training artificial intelligence or machine learning technologies to generate text, text to speech, voice, or audio without Author’s specific and express permission.

e12e 20 hours ago||||
> books they bought and destroyed (legal)

They're only legal if training is fair use - and even I don't think it's immediately clear what would be the legal status of verbatim regurgitation of code in copyright, or code protected by patents?

AFAIK I (as a human developer) can't assume that I can go and copy code out of a text book, and then assume copyright and charge for a license to it?

embedding-shape 20 hours ago||
> They're only legal if training is fair use

The judge seems to have said it's because they "transformed" the books (destroying them after digitalizing) in the process, that made it legal.

> Ultimately, Judge William Alsup ruled that this destructive scanning operation qualified as fair use—but only because Anthropic had legally purchased the books first, destroyed each print copy after scanning, and kept the digital files internally rather than distributing them. The judge compared the process to “conserv[ing] space” through format conversion and found it transformative. - https://arstechnica.com/ai/2025/06/anthropic-destroyed-milli...

e12e 17 hours ago||
Interesting - so local models, like Google Gemini is then likely pirated by this interpretation - because the model is distributed? Ditto open weight models?
senaevren 23 hours ago|||
The intermingling argument is actually central to the Bartz settlement structure. The settlement required destruction of the pirated dataset specifically because commingled training data creates an unresolvable provenance problem. For deployers building on Claude, EDPB Opinion 28/2024 requires a documented assessment of the foundation model's training data legal basis before deployment. "We cannot tell which outputs came from which source" is not a satisfactory answer to a regulator running that assessment. wrote about it before here: https://legallayer.substack.com/p/i-read-every-edpb-document...
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