Posted by icy 21 hours ago
What prompted this? I can't see "tanglers" in the OP. Did you see them calling their users "tanglers" somewhere? Honest question.
https://blog.tangled.org/seed/
It always ends the same way.
enshittification.
Also:
> Bain Capital Crypto is an investor.
A crypto VC is invested in this.
This is not the solution.
but your overall point is extremely valid. lurching from garden to garden is just stupid for something so critical and core to the way software is developed. there should be a meaningful core standard for the data (the commits, PRs, workflows, etc). If people want to innovate and change on top of that great.
that's how GitHub started, but they flattered and turned the screws and convinced everyone that using them was the only viable workflow. for that matter can't we revisit the notion of a 'forge', that's really some product marketers version of how things should work and be bundled and charged for, not anything fundamental.
Look how well that has turned out even though Bluesky is open source.
Tangled is not funded by the community.
It would be better if it was rather than it be owned by VCs.
??? Bluesky can make decisions, mistakes, or moderation choices you disagree with and you can just go to https://blacksky.community, a completely independent AppView with different moderation that was up for the entirety of a 24hr outage Bluesky recently had.
I'd say AT Protocol is turning out pretty well.
Bluesky PBC still has major influence of the AT Protocol.
> and you can just go to https://blacksky.community, a completely independent AppView
Swapping one broken chair for another broken chair won’t cut it.
Development and steering is subsidised by VCs funding Bluesky at this point. (especially a crypto VC)
Have you ever asked whats in it for them?
What plans are they going to put into the protocol?
I can see the AT Protocol shoving crypto payments or whatever in their insatiable quest for growth and ROI, because when the funding money runs out when BS miss their growth targets, this is what happens.
And for Tangled’s monetisation path, it is questionable.
So no.
Not a solution.
Undoubtedly these various hosts will come under pressure from spammers and the like and they will react by placing extraordinary barriers around accessing the code.
That’s fine but it reminds me of the later stages of online forums, where it was impossible to browse most threads because you had to create an account and then build up community points until the screenshot of the kernel panic on the ZTE phone would be visible so you could see if it’s the same problem as yours.
GitHub was big and powerful enough to not need all of this but now we’re going back to the era of decentralization and I suppose with that come the pros and cons.
it's one thing to use the protocol of libertarian dickheads in the hopes of extracting it from them, but when it's done by other libertarian dickheads, there's not much chance of that outcome.
on balance, though, the tech appears solid. as in, it does what they claim it does and that is mostly what devs seem to need. if you're not interested in who you're giving your content to, at least tangled has the functionality that they're offering your content in exchange for it.
definitely in favor of git federation, and while I would prefer that it happens using git and only git, rather than another protocol on top of it, I get the feeling that there are at least some things that git wouldn't handle well that people would still really want, so I can understand why so many would reach for a wrapper protocol instead.
RESPONSE EDIT (clear and intentional rate-limit evasion):
hayden_dev: not going to dig up the specific source, but you can search for "bluesky" and "waffles" to find the offending skeets (or the dramatic thinkpieces about them), and you can read the responses to those skeets yourself, where you can find the tangled dev/cofounder.
psionides: hey, to each their own! I'd never ask you to call anyone a libertarian dickhead. and I'd also never begrudge your your opinion of someone you've personally exchanged comments with, even if I didn't agree with that opinion based on the comments I had exchanged with them. you do you, friend!
to anyone else that thinks they are... uh... "exposing" me... ? let me be clear in my bias: fuck the AT protocol - not because it's bad, because the people who made it are dickheads that are more interested in pretending they're building the future than in actually delivering a social product for human beings. They're not unique in this; in fact they are in very common company. most silicon valley types, especially those borne out of the largest social media companies in the world, prefer to make 'perfect systems', rather than actually engage with the imperfection of human social dynamics. but, to be clear, my condemnation for them is not unique to them either. I consider the heads of facebook, and google, and adobe, and microsoft, and pretty much any other large software company dickheads, too.
just because everyone sucks doesn't mean I'm wrong to say they suck. nor does it make me wrong to specify that THIS ONE sucks, without necessarily caveating that with "and all the others suck too, and maybe less". my problem is the seemingly endless loop of tech bros saying "well, it's the best we got, and they seem fine, so we'll make do with what they're giving us", and then eventually those same tech bros shrugging their shoulders when the whole thing falls apart because of libertarian dickheads and their priorities. We're at the start of the loop with ATProto, but for a look at the end of the loop, see the consensus on github today.
catpart has totally 100% provided a citation for the "fuck the users" moment (sike): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46672904
the actual "fuck the users" moment is described here [4,3095771], wherein a group of activists failed to get a person (Jesse Singal) they deemed unpalatable deplatformed from Bluesky, mostly by claiming that this person broke the ToS, and the Bluesky moderators mocked the activists in public.
[4] https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/05/waffles-eat-bluesky/
[3095771] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Singal#Subsequent_events
as far as who isn't, the first names that come to mind are Fred Rogers - he seems like kind of the summit of what a soul can aspire to be. Randall Munroe seems like a pretty awesome guy. Haven't looked too much into him, though. most names that come to mind are personal acquaintances that wouldn't mean much to you, but I find that it's not very difficult to find non-dickheads in my day to day life. probably around 30% of the people I encounter in passing are a-okay in my book! but it is true that the number of dickheads I encounter skyrocket when I start approaching cultures that glorify personal gain over community success and health. abstract or practical; the business community is rife with awful people and los angelos is terrible for entirely different reasons.
anyway, yeah. I make a living. dealing with wonderful people who have a shred of humility and who - when they get called out - just sheepishly say "oh! wow, that is awful. I'm so sorry for saying/doing that." and everybody moves on with their business. I hope you work with wonderful people as well!
Alternatively, they fix these things now, so once CRQC arrives, it's already not a problem, and no gets compromised nor have to urgently update their software.