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Posted by zdw 2 days ago

Eka’s robotic claw feels like we're approaching a ChatGPT moment(www.wired.com)
https://archive.is/Wro1e
125 points | 161 commentspage 2
bethekidyouwant 7 hours ago|
Call me when it can tie a shoelace.
tuatoru 9 hours ago||
The robotics Turing test: change the nappies of the designer's and company owners' baby daughters or grand-daughters.
xg15 9 hours ago||
I'd already be fine with some decent laundry folding in general.
ceejayoz 9 hours ago||
I think the idea is that before they sell it to the public they should trust it with their own loved ones.
dmix 7 hours ago|||
There's a video of the founder of Figure robotics trusting it enough to let it do laundry next to his kids

https://x.com/adcock_brett/status/1950685253447913798

The first phase is likely don't let the kids go near it since it could easily hurt a human by accident.

davkan 3 hours ago|||
Is it automated or is it like when they demoed that neo humanoid robot and it was actually just a dude driving it with vr goggles.
GCUMstlyHarmls 6 hours ago||||
Notably it does not show the robot turning on the washing machine?
chihuahua 5 hours ago||
That requires the ProMax subscription at $2500/month.
davesque 7 hours ago|||
Stockton Rush trusted his submarine with his own life.
oblio 25 minutes ago||
> He criticized the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993 as "needlessly prioritiz[ing] passenger safety over commercial innovation".

:-)))

crooked-v 8 hours ago|||
Or to put it another way, before selling it for laundry folding, make sure it won't fold the baby that was left on the wrong table.
Ekaros 7 hours ago||
Other fun things. Living in apartment with only the robot doing any tasks or picking up any inputs like arriving packages.
NDlurker 7 hours ago||
Mount 2 of these on a Segway and I can think of several tasks that could be automated where I work.
martythemaniak 11 hours ago||
Rodney Brooks has a great essay on why he's skeptical that the current humanoid hype will deliver and the central claim is that human dexterity is extremely advanced any today's humanoids lack even the sensors and data needed to start building the models needed to match human performance.

https://rodneybrooks.com/why-todays-humanoids-wont-learn-dex...

I saw him post this article on his Bluesky saying that they're the first ones he's seen that are close to cracking this issue (he's an investor/adviser).

nomel 10 hours ago||
> needed to match human performance.

This is not a remotely a real world requirement for them to be useful, and for them to sell like crazy.

usrnm 10 hours ago||
Isn't it? The whole promise if humanoid robots is replacing humans in a human-centered environment. Instead of specialized hardware or modifying the existing process, just drop a robot in place of a human, bam, done. Otherwise, what's the point?
pzo 10 hours ago||
The point is that even if they do something 3x slower and maybe capable of 1/100 tasks they can still this do task 24/7, without holiday and never sick, they can also have more strength e.g in construction.

My smart vacuum is more dump than me when wiping floor and much slower than be but still greatly useful.

cyber_kinetist 10 minutes ago|||
The problem - robots do break, they need constant maintenance, repair, and replacement (especially the smaller ones like the humanoids), and can go wrong in all sorts of situations. The costs for robot maintenance largely depend on the reliability of hardware and that should be included in the ROI calculation (which almost no one is doing right now)
throawayonthe 9 hours ago|||
that's the thing, what's the appeal of humanoid robots then? why not something more fit to the task? imagine if your roomba had legs because well that's what a human uses to move around when cleaning
dogcomplex 9 hours ago|||
Accessibility and a single chassis that does the vast majority of things. Even if they're never as fully dexterous as the average human (doubt it) they're still as dexterous as a somewhat handicapped human, which is already clearly enough to function decently in most of society and is far from useless.

If you want several bots all custom built to specific tasks, go for it. That will happen too. But a generalist has value of its own.

marcosdumay 8 hours ago|||
> imagine if your roomba had legs

That would probably be an improvement. Floors are designed for people, and may have several levels. An ideal vacuum would probably look something like a centipede.

Anyway, the appeal would be that it can perform several tasks. It doesn't need to perform all the tasks a human can to fulfill that.

megaman821 10 hours ago|||
I wonder how accurate joint positions and muscle activations can be from just a POV camera. Maybe it’s not crazy to think someone could get tens of millions of hours of well-labeled training data.
artisin 10 hours ago|||
[dead]
dyauspitr 11 hours ago||
Yeah I’m going to completely disregard this because I feel like we are less than a year away from completely human feeling humanoids. This is based on nothing but obsessively watching and following humanoid progress on the internet.
ManuelKiessling 11 hours ago|||
What was eye-opening, or rather, sobering for me was when I read an interview with an engineer who explained how incredible difficult it is for a robot to orient itself when it is lying on the floor and wants to stand up.

Yes, it can do the required motions just fine, that’s not the point. But think about yourself when you are lying on the floor: it’s really easy to determine if this is safe, if you are lying underneath something and so on. You just feel that.

A robot cannot do that; all they can do is look around as good as possible and visually determine their situation.

jgord 11 hours ago||
I naively assumed they have a gravity sensor, so will generally have an approximate up vector ?
ManuelKiessling 11 hours ago|||
Yeah but imagine yourself lying on the floor with your vision being your only sense, plus an info floating in your mind: „fyi, you are no longer upright“.

That’s all, you feel nothing else. Now your job is to move all parts of your body in just the right way.

Dylan16807 3 hours ago|||
Do I know which way my joints are bent (which a robot knows)? Then I can manage it.

And why don't I have any sense of pressure at all? We can put that into robots.

AndrewDucker 10 hours ago|||
But I have more than that. I can definitely sense which way is up unless I'm underwater.
card_zero 10 hours ago||
Or have an amusing inner ear infection. So OK, sure, it's vector, not a flag.
rcxdude 11 hours ago||||
Theu have an IMU, what they don't generally have is the various aspects of touch.
card_zero 10 hours ago||
The point about being aware of lying underneath some object was interesting. Sound might matter, like the frequency of background noise changes when you're in an enclosed space, and listening to your own shuffling noises helps you know when you've planted your feet right - or something. I have some really effective ear plugs and I notice they make it harder to move around.

Having said that, I've probably hit my head on the underside of an open cupboard door five or six times in my life, and I expect to do it again.

LeCompteSftware 10 hours ago|||
It is also things like "I can feel that my left knee is bearing a little too much weight, I should shift weight to my right hand and use that to push myself up" - things that come automatically to animals after learning the hard way in infancy (some of it is innate; baby animals are clumsy, but usually more mobile than human infants). Regardless of learned-vs-instinct, these abilities rely on sophisticated "sensors" and cognition. I suspect engineering the sensors is actually a bit harder, but I'm also not optimistic about a deep learning approach to the cognition.

A significant underappreciated advantage of animals over AI: lifeforms can "learn the hard way" more easily than 2020s robots because of cheap self-repair. AI labs are reluctant to damage their robots, but an essential part of humans learning to move safely is severely bonking your head and reckoning with the consequences - "hey, dummy, why did you trip and fall and bonk your head? Because you were running like an idiot."

I am learning the hard way to this day :) I have been practicing with work knives. A few months ago I got stupid and impatient, and sliced my thumb nastily. If I didn't block the cut with my thumbnail (still ruined) I might have chopped bone. It is hard to say precisely what I learned from this experience - "don't be stupid and impatient" is facile - but I know I learned a lot. I am actually optimistic about targeted surgical robotics. But for a general-use humanoid robot, I would not want to give it a knife if it's not capable of feeling pain. I never use big knives anywhere near my cats because I understand intuitively that they are nimble and unpredictable and easily stabbed by knives. I didn't need to be trained on this. A robot kind of does. Yikes.

jfengel 11 hours ago||||
I obsessively avoid any kind of "technology is going thataway" content. So I haven't seen anything that looks like humanoid progress in quite some time. About the only thing that has snuck around my barrier is Musk apparently claiming he'll have it by the end of the year, which is pretty conclusive evidence that they won't have it by the end of the year.

So if you're seeing anything that actually seems to merit attention, I'd love a few pointers. I could use some good news.

nancyminusone 11 hours ago||||
Well, as someone who has tried to build at least a couple small robot arms, I think we are probably closer to 20-50 years away. Both the power and dexterity are not there.

Right now, only a human can both push over a boulder and pick up a tiny speck from the floor using the same actuator.

rcxdude 11 hours ago|||
Beware generalising from a carefully curated and presented set of demos to real life.
SpyCoder77 7 hours ago||
If Figure acquires Eka they are so winning the humanoid race.
theteapot 3 hours ago||
> Companies pay people to spend hours doing routine tasks with their hands while wearing cameras and motion-capture gloves.

Dystopian. Which companies out of interest?

chrisweekly 11 hours ago||
Anyone else here have happy memories of playing with Armatron? Circa 1984?
manyturtles 11 hours ago||
Apparently yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43718493
pugworthy 9 hours ago|||
Oh hell yea!

Just a few weeks ago at work we got a Universal Robots UR5 from another project in-house along with a Hand-E gripper.

I've never had so much fun programming and playing with a device ever. And it completely took me back to getting an Armatron 40 years ago and having so much fun - but also wishing I could somehow control it with software.

voxadam 8 hours ago|||
I still have mine sitting on a shelf in my office.
iancmceachern 11 hours ago||
Yes! The most amazing part about those things was they achieved all those axis' of motion with one or two motors.
euroderf 38 minutes ago||
And the associated grinding noises were kinda scary but damn if the thing didn't hold up.
HardCodedBias 11 hours ago||
This one is different? What about unitree? What about their demo at the Spring Festival Gala?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykiuz1ZdGBc

That sure felt "different".

No doubt hands are important, but I think you've missed a lot here Wired.

mediaman 10 hours ago||
Many of the Chinese companies are doing very impressive open-loop sim2real. They make great demonstrations. They are not great at dealing with the real world and unpredictable environments.

(That's not true of all Chinese companies - some are doing really impressive work with closed loop systems in unpredictable environments. But many of the highly viewed ones with coordinated dance performances or martial arts are intended more as theater to government financial sponsors than useful function. The technically impressive performances do not look as visually impressive.)

darenr 10 hours ago||
those were impressive but were also RC. I think an important part of robotics is not just the mechanics of humanoid motion, but the independent control of those mechanics.
unsnap_biceps 10 hours ago||
Can you expand on what was RC? Was the compute off device?
jfengel 11 hours ago||
Back in the 90s, I developed a rule of thumb: if I saw it in Wired, it's because it was either already over, or it wasn't going to happen at all.

I was so disappointed when I saw BetterPlace (the car with replaceable batteries) on the cover of Wired. It seemed like such a good idea. Too bad the rule of thumb meant it wouldn't work.

Rules of thumb were made to be broken. Maybe this time it will be different.

eichin 9 hours ago|
Yeah, betterplace made it from 2008 (wired) to 2013 (bankruptcy.) Nio is trying again and it looks like they hit wired in 2018, again in 2023, and are still active today...
semiquaver 9 hours ago|
https://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
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