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Posted by thatxliner 11 hours ago

Ti-84 Evo(education.ti.com)
413 points | 366 commentspage 2
scarecrw 10 hours ago|
I'm surprised to see "Approved for Exams" featured so prominently, as handheld calculators for lots of standardized exams are being phased out.

All of the exams listed are either already offered in a computerized format or in a transition phase, with the PSAT, SAT, APs, and ACT all already offering Desmos in their testing apps.

I love handheld calculators, but, especially in a time-sensitive environment, it's hard to beat a large screen and full keyboard.

corysama 9 hours ago||
"Approved for Exams" make more sense when you take into account the history of the Ti family of calculators.

Why are they still able to sell what is effectively a 30 year old computer for as much or more today than when it came out? Because they managed to get the family informally standardized as "The calculator every teacher in America understands well enough to manage students who use it. Therefore pretty much everything else that could be as or more advanced is effect banned."

It was an amazing piece of kit when it first came out. No doubt you could make something 100x better and 10x cheaper today if someone really tried. But, they would fail commercially because you can't design-in 30 years of legacy in the US school system.

bluebands 10 hours ago|||
for context

tests like SAT, ACT, and some AP exams are using Desmos, yes

however:

- this means you have to fiddle with a popover window and can't always see the full problem (especially when the reference sheet is also online)

- you have less muscle memory and often take longer

- harder to multitask (you use paper anyways, and the paper to calculator friction is lower than the paper to trackpad friction

- trackpads on school computers are usually worse, which compounds the problem

- some specific functions just don't exist

essentially using Desmos is like using a physical mouse/trackpad, while using your calculator is like using VIM motions and keyboard shortcuts with a concave split keyboard. it's technically more intuitive and can help in certain scenarios, but it's useful to have both.

this sounds trivial, but it's not, especially on tests where you have about or less than a minute per question

ideally you have both a handheld calculator and Desmos though

jacobolus 5 hours ago||
Ideally the tests would not require external tools at all. There's nothing that needs to be tested in the context of a high school course that can't done with pencil and paper.
jmalicki 10 hours ago||
TIL Desmos. Thanks for the interesting info, seems super cool!
alter_igel 2 hours ago||
I used to doodle and make pixel art on my TI 84+ in high school. I'd spend entire classes just clicking left, right, up, down, and enter to move and toggle individual pixels with a simple program I'd written. https://timstr.website/artwork/ti84plus.html
aggregator-ios 4 hours ago||
I was introduced to the 83 Plus and it was simply the most mindblowing device at the time. We were given a sheet to share with our parents on why it was an important device to own/borrow. Me and several friends would trade apps through the TI-Link cable, and we would play games, write software for it and there was even a popularity rank in school about whose program was installed on more calculators.

For a lot of people it introduced them to TI-Basic which was quite capable, and for others you could get into Assembly which allowed for more powerful applications. There were 2 parts of the memory, BASIC programs were in regular memory that could be easily erased, and another part which was Flash Apps.

I later upgraded to the 89 which had a better CPU, screen resolution and processing power and it was phenomenal in helping me understand every single math class, including EE/EECS. It made me sad to see them banned in exams, because having a 83+/89/any calculator was in no way helpful in any of the exams I took, but it was more of a "control the students" thing in college. The Math department determined that because they couldn't prove that people were not using the internet/portable PC's in their calculators, that they could not guarantee the fairness of it all.

Weird argument to make knowing that a 20 year old student was engineering a full internet capable PC into a calculator at the time would have been the envy of the world (and every engineering program).

This all depends on the quality of education and not simply handing out problems that require rote memorization of the methods to solve an equation and instead derive or figure out the equation yourself after understanding the problem after which you're free to use the calculator to "plug and chug".

guizzy 11 hours ago||
> Built to be a reliable learning tool, not a distraction

15 year old me in math class programming my loaned TI-82: CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

IIAOPSW 9 hours ago|
Jokes on you, you learned to program.
JoshTriplett 11 hours ago||
> Not just an upgrade — an EVOlution

Oh no.

girvo 11 hours ago||
You’re absolutely right!

…LLM-isms are like nails on chalkboard I swear. Instant turn off the moment I read them.

Even if they’re maybe not lol, doesn’t matter my visceral reaction is negative.

Apocryphon 5 hours ago||
That's just what standard marketing copy sounds like.

...which perhaps says a lot about the corpora that the models are trained on.

stabbles 10 hours ago|||
This made me double check if it wasn't someone's vibe code scam website.
smlacy 10 hours ago||
156 MHz!!!!
billforsternz 10 hours ago||
Surprisingly high or surprisingly low?
dadoum 9 hours ago|||
I don't know either what they meant, but for comparison NumWorks calculators are clocked at 216 MHz (100 MHz for the older models, and 550 MHz for some of the latest ones, but not everywhere), so it doesn't look that much out of the ordinary, maybe a little underpowered from my experience with the first NumWorks but eh idk it's a calculator and unlike the first NumWorks they don't try to do CAS.
smlacy 10 hours ago||||
IMHO surprisingly low. Still not clear to me why they don't just port these things to ARM or similar?
billforsternz 9 hours ago||
Thanks for clarifying. I think this is an ARM and a break from a history of Z80 and Z80 adjacent CPUs. I do get the impression TI have done a good (financial) job milking these products whilst under investing in real product innovation.
nxobject 9 hours ago|||
Faster than a base-config SGI O2, with a MIPS R10000 at 150 MHz! /s
palmotea 10 hours ago||
> Simplified keypad

> The keypad layout removes clutter and makes commands and shortcuts easier to see, so you can work faster with fewer steps.

I don't see it. I compared a screenshot of one of these to a older T-84, and it looks like they have same number of buttons, and the buttons are just as cluttered (except the EVO has secondary labels on the keycaps instead of the case).

That's a good thing, since one of the best things about calculators is they typically have a ton of buttons for quick access to a lot of functions.

nxobject 9 hours ago|
On my favorite designs ever? The first TI-Nspire "battleship" keyboard. Mini alpha-symbol keys in the corners of actual keys. It looked so annoying, but my muscle memory got very good at it.

https://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-DOR2014-05202...

balls187 10 hours ago||
The comments on this are fascinating. Although, I was waiting for someone to chime in with "HP is better cuz RPN."

2 dinners out for a family of four would cover the cost of this calculator. If my kid's school required this for math, I wouldn't bat an eye at purchasing one.

I needed a Ti-83 for school in 1996-1998. If you couldn't afford one, the school would loan you one for the semester. Band instruments were the same way.

golem14 9 hours ago|
> I was waiting for someone to chime in with "HP is better cuz RPN."

Well, it is ;) The Swiss Micros clones are pretty awesome:

https://www.swissmicros.com/product/dm41x

natas 2 hours ago|||
I'd take a dm42n over any Ti anyday.
xbar 8 hours ago|||
I have 2 Swiss Micros and a pile of sapphire-chip designed-in-Corvallis USA-made HPs. The DM41x is pure joy in the hand. But I still texted the pink TI-84 EVO to my 16-year-old daughter because she doesn't like my stodgy TI-84 CE Plus (which I love).
golem14 6 hours ago||
Same story here. I still have the HP15C I learned assembly language on ;) None worse for the wear. They'll all come handy after the acopalypse.
Mathochist 10 hours ago||
Those who have used various classic HP calculators in the past may be interested in this:

https://www.swissmicros.com/products

These are clones of various older calculators.

kstrauser 10 hours ago|
I bought a DM42n last year. I didn't need it. I don't use it so often that I can justify its purchase. Still, wow, I do so enjoy working with it. It's one of those tools that just feels good to use.
SirHumphrey 10 hours ago||
There is a certain joy in working with RPN and in using a piece of technology that was designed as a tool, not as a toy or an educational appliance.

With phone emulation, I probably need half a calculator. I have three.

kstrauser 8 hours ago||
That's so true. It's custom-built to do exactly one thing, as efficiently and ergonomically as possible. I love any tool like that.
Willish42 10 hours ago||
I loved my TI-84+ SE and wish I still had it (had all sorts of custom programs on it but it got lost or stolen before I finished high school).

That said, I find it really hard to believe that they can't provide better specs and feature set for the cost. User-available memory of 3.5MB is incredibly low, especially with Python support. These could be really cool handheld computers if TI put more effort into their devices that already have a massive install base.

Currently, most of their popularity in my experience is "lock in" effect from teachers who are familiar with TI calculators and lab / curriculum materials that are specifically built around teaching through TI calculators. At this rate they're charging a lot and resting on their near monopoly status in education, which I'm sure is very profitable for TI.

There used to be a great app called WabbitEmu that emulated these devices on Android. I think they got a cease and desist but it was pretty neat to have back in the day

aarc 2 hours ago|
I still have my TI-83 plus. It's been with me for 25 years now! I've always kept it on my desk, despite the fact that I engraved 'KoЯn' on cover when I was 13 or 14.
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