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Posted by buildbot 6 hours ago

Why does it take so long to release black fan versions?(www.noctua.at)
277 points | 122 comments
randerson 15 minutes ago|
I love Noctua, and just wish they'd branch out from PCs and build more types of fans. Our lives are filled with so much irritating noise from noisy fans. Air conditioners, kitchen extractors, hair dryers, box fans, air purifiers, vacuum cleaners, leaf blowers, car climate control & radiator fans, just to name a few. I'd happily pay a premium for quieter things.
awakeasleep 4 minutes ago||
https://a.co/d/0eRatANA

Have you tried Vornado’s alchemy line? I splurged on it due to similar feelings and have been quite pleased. I use the petit as a desk fan.

PunchyHamster 7 minutes ago||
They do have industrial fan series
ninjagoo 3 minutes ago||
> we have implemented a tip clearance of only 0.5mm (120mm models) or 0.7mm (140mm models) in order to minimise leak flows through the gap between impeller and frame.

> Achieving such small tip clearances is essentially at the absolute limit of what injection moulding can consistently reproduce

For folks thinking about Lego tolerances [1] that are an order of magnitude tighter at 10 microns or 0.01 mm, it turns out that the largest Lego moving parts are a turntable at 50mm or so, and rotate at an rpm an order of magnitude slower (100 or so rpm vs 1200 rpm), so these tight tolerances are quite tricky to achieve, and more importantly, maintain over the life of the product, apparently.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego?utm_source=chatgpt.com#De...

fxtentacle 3 hours ago||
This is content marketing executed perfectly :) Reading it, I learned something new and interesting and they had an opportunity to show off one of their differentiators against the competition (low leakage flow due to tighter tolerances) and then at the end they casually mention the new product that has just opened for pre-orders.
petterroea 1 minute ago||
If all advertising was this interesting maybe I wouldn't hate it
moontear 3 hours ago|||
I enjoyed reading it. Informative and showing of their processes and giving some intricate details. And yes, the end goal is to sell products which is fine by me. I take this over any generic non-saying marketing-blurb any time.
nerdsniper 1 hour ago|||
I'd love more white, personally. I also don't understand the obsession with black. For me, black objects are very difficult to observe in detail, and that irks me.
Zak 37 minutes ago||
I imagine a white PC fan would look terrible if not cleaned daily or used in a room with very filtered air.
wolvoleo 3 hours ago||
Yeah it's more marketing than anything IMO.
Simran-B 2 hours ago||
Wondering if it's just the marketing that Noctua did, and the actual mold and process engineering left to some fab in China?
creesch 1 hour ago||
With Noctua I highly doubt that is the case given their track record for quality overall and all other information available around their design and engineering process. As far as I know based on all the information I have seen all the design and engineering is done in Austria. They also have a track record of only releasing things once they are satisfied something performs within their standards. Something that would be next to impossible when solely relying on external fabs and process engineering.

They also utilize different manufactures afaik (historically Taiwan, but also China these days) meaning they need to have pretty solid in house knowledge and expertise to make sure different factories produces similar results. When they first started utilizing Chinese factories people noticed visual differences and were worried about that. But Noctua at the time claimed that they made sure that performance was still the same. A claim that was put to the test by various review outlets at the time (I want to say gamer nexus did a big piece about it?) and confirmed to be true.

Having said that, if you do utilize external factories you automatically are making use of their process engineering to some degree as well. But, and this is difficult for many people to understand, that isn't a binary thing either. You can entirely rely on the factory to basically do everything for you and just send feedback on iterations but you can also work closely with them and actually get involved in the process itself.

andyjohnson0 45 minutes ago||
I enjoyed reading this. As others have said, it's both interesting and good marketing communication.

I'm a dev and for the last year I've been working for a company that manufactures pretty complex and advanced machines. I work with proper engineers - electronic, electrical, control, mechanical - and actual scientists. One of the things I've come to appreciate from this is the hidden depts of detail and complexity in so many aspects of the objects that surround us. People work hard on small details that hide in the background but are vital to making things work. And there's often code in everything, all the way down.

And now I can add plastic injection moulding to that. The rabbit hole goes very deep.

Edit to add:

My dad worked forty-plus years as an engineering pattern maker. He made, by hand, the high-tolerance "negatives" that were used to form moulds made from sand and resin. The moulds were used to cast parts for industrial valves: molten brass and gunmetal was poured into them, in a foundry, and left to cool. I think he would have deeply appreciated what this article was saying about craft and engineering and patience.

nolok 22 minutes ago|
When it comes to industrial manufacturing, a think of lot of people are not realizing (by lack of education on the matter in general knowledge or schooling) the difference between levels of manufacturing, the precision required for some things, and how the hard part is having the full chain (making the tool that can make the tool that can make the tool that ...) because you can't jump from nothing to milimeter precision.

Also known as "why did China who already owned world manufacturing insisted and struggled on making ballpoint pen until 2017", "why are car manufacturers not making random cheap cars that have the curbs of beloved sports cars", "why are barely 5-6 countries able to make decent jet engines" and all that.

Manufacturing is hard. It's built upon layers and layers of deep knowledge and abilities. And when don't have it or you lose it, just knowing how to make the last layer is not enough, you need to rebuild the entire stack.

Which in this case becomes "painting something black is easy, making a fan black is easy, making a high quality high precision fan black from the starting point of the same fan in another color is an industrial challenge".

(I did a couple months of industrial engineering in university and while it wasn't for me, I loved what I learned about the field)

SwellJoe 4 hours ago||
I like the brown ones. Everything is black, it's dumb, and I'm happy to have any contrast.
RachelF 3 hours ago||
Yeah, everything being black on modern motherboards might look cool with RGB lighting, but makes it harder to work on. I like the older green PCBs with white PCI slots.

I also lament the demise of color coded connectors at the back. I knew to plug my speakers into the green 3.5mm jack. Now everything is black, so I need to look at the manual again to see which of the 5 connectors is the right one.

nerdsniper 1 hour ago|||
> everything being black on modern motherboards might look cool with RGB lighting

I always figured white would look better for RGB-lit computers. I don't know why white is so rare.

spockz 1 hour ago||
So they can upsell you a white version for €30-€300 more. (Looking at you Sapphire.)
ssl-3 3 hours ago|||
I remember being a kid when standardized port colors came 'round (what was that, part of the AC'97 spec or something?). I thought that was dumb: I knew that the speakers plugged into the third hole from the top, and that was good enough for me. ;)

Back then: I would have loved black-on-black, labelled-in-black, with black cables and and black highlights on a black background. The accessories would be black, too: Black keyboard, black featureless keycaps, black mouse, with a black mousepad, on a black desk, in a black room with black walls and black windows.

Black.

I couldn't get black back then, of course. Computers were beige. The necessary floppy and optical drives were beige. Cables were beige. Keyboards were beige. Motherboards were some moral equivalent to beige. It might be possible to get one or two components in black at some points, but the rest were going to be beige so therefore the whole thing might as well just be resolutely beige.

That really annoyed me.

But I'm not a kid anymore; I'm old. I just want stuff that works well, and that is expandable enough to do some fun and unusual computing stuff with, and that I can see so that when I'm futzing around with it then my job is easier than it would otherwise be.

I don't want RGB or a tempered glass aquarium that shatters when part of it touches a tile floor the wrong way. I don't care about having multiple choices for the color of the anodizing on the heatsinks for the RAM. I don't want water cooling when a big slow-moving fan and some heat pipes does the job very quietly, with improved simplicity therefore longevity. I'm not trying to win a cooling benchmark; I'm just trying to keep the CPU within its specified thermal range while it does work for long periods at its maximum speed. I don't care what color the fans are as long as I can't hear them.

If I want to play with RGB by making or buying some party lights, then I know how to do that. Party lights for the room (or the whole house!), not the guts of the PC. :)

Otherwise: The computer is on the floor under the desk and the USB hub is on top of the desk, and that's all I need to deal with. It is purposeful and functional. There's no style points here, but I just don't care about that anymore.

(I'll be outside yelling at clouds if anyone needs me for anything.)

Gravityloss 1 hour ago||
Actual CPU progress stopped so it's become a color and light show.
petepete 4 hours ago|||
Me too. All my computers have Noctua fans and I don't care in the slightest that they're the same colour as my parents' sofa in the 1980s.

I have a couple of their screwdrivers too. I'm with with brown.

wolvoleo 3 hours ago||
This colour combo is more 1970s than 80s. 80s was more gaudy neon and transparent stuff. The 70s loved their murky browns. OK PC boxes of the 80s and 90s were all beige too but they didn't have any brown. It also fit in with manufacturing in those days: In the 70s a lot of wood was still used, whereas in the 80s everything shifted to plastics.

But whether you love or hate (as I do) the brown Noctua colours, the one thing is that they are kinda polarising. They're not a "clean fit" in any build unless you really wanna show that you use Noctua and use them as a centrepiece. Which I guess is the point of their marketing. They want to make it seem their fans are so good people are willing to put up with the colour.

VorpalWay 3 hours ago||
I love Noctua fans and I don't care about their colour. For all I cared they could be pink as long as they are best in class on noise and reliability.

They are going inside the computer where they aren't visible. The point of a computer to me is to be powerful while being as discrete about it as it can be (i.e. quiet and no blinking rgb lights). I don't have a glass side panel, I run an older Fractal case with aluminum sides with sound dampening instead.

I never understood "form over function", but each to their own.

wolvoleo 1 hour ago||
> They are going inside the computer where they aren't visible.

Speak for yourself :) My computer is pretty open, the fans are visible through the front and through the side panel.

I don't run RGB either though but I do like to style it.

And of course the "form over function" is part of that market niche that really pays a lot for something like a fan. Noctua aren't that special, as others have mentioned there are much cheaper brands with the same performance including sound level. You do pay a lot for just the branding.

VorpalWay 23 minutes ago||
Every other brans of fans I have used (which to be fair is far from all of them) have only lasted 3 maybe 4 years before they started making more noise than when new. They weren't completely broken, but any increase in noise is unacceptable to me. I live in an old quiet house, there is no noise from forced ventilation but because it doesn't have that. There is no city noise. On a still day in the winter with no wind or birdsong it can be extremely quiet.

I have some Noctua fans still going strong after a decade. Are there other brands that can also do that? Probably, I have some BeQuiet fans now too in a tower CPU cooler (couldn't get hold of a Noctua cooler during the pandemic), it will be interesting to see what happens in another 6 years or so with them.

And no, I don't change my computer every 3 years or so any more, so longevity does matter to me.

beAbU 2 hours ago|||
I'm at an age where I feel the same about many things in life. Black, sleek and minimalist is so boring and blends into the background.

Just this morning I purchased these car mats for my black, korean-spec-tinted people carrier electric van:

https://carmats.ie/products/kia-pv5-passenger-2026-van-mats?...

retired 38 minutes ago|||
Funny how the world works. People once bought cheap children’s play carpets and cut them up as car mats out of poverty. Now people pay €75 to get that same look.
Rnonymous 1 hour ago|||
On sidenote: I'm quite interested in the PV5 and have only seen one in the wild so far. How is it for you? And how is the range in practice.
Havoc 3 hours ago|||
Preference. Some people like their PCs to look like a rainbow alien LED spaceship, others would go for vanta black if they could get it
razakel 2 hours ago|||
Stuart Semple changed his name to Anish Kapoor, because only Anish Kapoor has the rights to use Vantablack for artistic purposes.

I think there might also be export restrictions, but I'm not sure.

xingped 1 hour ago||
I love the petty little fight over the blackest black and pinkest pink or whatever that whole drama is. It's hilarious.
recursivecaveat 3 hours ago|||
The beige/brown fans give me a woodgrain vibe more than anything. Straight white would probably be more popular with LED folks imo.
throawayonthe 2 hours ago||
yep, white pc component are almost always at a premium :p
sammy2255 4 hours ago|||
Agreed. It's like Tatooine themed from Star Wars
2muchcoffeeman 1 hour ago|||
Black is some weird masculine thing where it all has to be “tactical”
vasco 4 hours ago||
[flagged]
0-_-0 3 hours ago|||
Some of my friends are beige
dotancohen 4 hours ago||||
I've heard that the black fans go to more shows, but the white fans buy more albums.
csto12 4 hours ago|||
Booooooooooo
PunchyHamster 4 minutes ago||
I wonder why they can't just get the last half a mm of accuracy by just grinding down the tips
esjeon 25 minutes ago||
This is a really nice write up. The reason itself — why the delay — is totally within my own speculation, but the sheer quality of the writing dragged me through the whole article. That is something.

I think this shows how Noctua value their customers, including myself. I really love how they are nice to their customers — both their products and services — especially because experience like this is getting more and more scarce. I really appreciate their work.

thot_experiment 2 hours ago||
Noctua is one of few companies that has not broken my trust (yet). They promise me a really good fan, they're ten toes in on the promise and they have yet to fail to deliver.
navane 1 hour ago||
My fan broke after five? years of near 24/7 use. Customer support was very easy to reach. They sent me a new one after I sent some serial numbers as proof. They asked me then to break off a blade, and a picture of it so I didn't have to sent it back.
moffkalast 2 hours ago|||
They have many dedicated fans, both mechanical and biological.
izacus 2 hours ago||
Yeah, their products are expensive but every one of them proved high quality and reliable.
wolvoleo 3 hours ago||
I really miss that they don't release white versions. In my all-white case I just can't have Noctua. The brown ones I think are extremely ugly and the black ones stand out too much.

White doesn't really look bad in any case (except perhaps a full black one). The brown is very identifiable but that's only really a point if you desire to flaunt your expensive fans. Because it will stand out too much in almost any build. I honestly don't care about that, and for a fan this price I shouldn't have to put up with hidden advertising.

But I have BeQuiet Silent Wings and they're not bad. Quietness isn't something I'm optimising for anyway as I only use my desktop for gaming and when I do I wear headphones anyway. I do want to optimise more for pressure (as I have air filters) but these fans are no worse than Noctua.

VorpalWay 3 hours ago|
Just make a brown case (maybe with some walnut accents?) and the brown Noctua fans will be a perfect fit.
bpye 2 hours ago|||
Alternative - return to tradition with beige - https://www.silverstonetek.com/en/product/info/computer-chas...
wolvoleo 3 hours ago||||
Then I have to look at that brown thing all day :) Yuck

I like wood but only light wood, not the dark kind. That reminds me way too much of my grandparents' furniture.

VorpalWay 2 hours ago||
I usually look at the monitor, not the case under the desk. ;)

That said, I don't want RGB bleed, nor do i want a case where I see the insides. The computer is there to be powerful and discreet (both when it comes to noise and looks).

But sure, you could skip the walnut. I think Noctua should also go well with lighter woods. Oak perhaps but probably not all the way to birch.

Hamuko 2 hours ago|||
Buy a Fractal North.

https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/north/north/ch...

https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/north/north/ch...

wolvoleo 1 hour ago||
Huh interesting. I think the black one is super ugly with the dark wood but the white one isn't bad.

Still not something I'd buy though.

matteason 3 hours ago|
Anyone else getting the optical illusion of the fans spinning in your peripheral vision while reading the top paragraphs?
nsowz 3 hours ago||
Yep! Made me look a few times to make sure they weren't actually spinning.
Hamuko 3 hours ago||
Yup.
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