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Posted by dryadin 6 days ago

New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag(www.smithsonianmag.com)
570 points | 554 commentspage 2
irthomasthomas 5 days ago|
Trust HN to turn a banksy into a Rorschach test.

The statue is in Westminster, right by Whitehall. The heart of British government. It depicts a figure in a suit, marching off a ledge, completely blinded by a flag.

Who wears a suit and marches through Westminster under a flag?

- Businessmen? No. Merchants have no country.

- Officials? They wear suits but don't march

- Old-guard politicians? Rarely march or flag-wave with any conviction.

So who are we left with? The populist. The Nigel Farage archetype. The suited firebrand who wrap themselves in nationalist fervor, stoke the rabble, and blindly march everyone right off a cliff.

Banksy isn't known for complex, multi-layered messaging. He is popular precisely because he uses visual shorthand to say plainly what the general public is already thinking. There is no hidden 4D chess; it's just blunt satire about blind patriotism.

Edit: This also explains why the government is happy to keep this particular Banksy on display.

drcongo 5 days ago||
I like the fact that one can scroll through the comments here and instantly spot the Brits who have just a tiny bit more context.
atcol 5 days ago||
So predictable. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48002674
manesioz 5 days ago||
Banksy is peak redditor. Masquerading as a free-thinking activist who happens to agree with every talking point of the established media and global bureaucratic regime.
gryfft 5 days ago||
> who happens to agree with every talking point of the established media and global bureaucratic regime

Can you point me to where he expressed agreement with the global bureaucratic regime? Interested to educate myself.

hellojimbo 5 days ago||
Anti nationalism was the liberal motto for the entirety of my lifetime.
spprashant 5 days ago|||
Can you elaborate? I happen to know nothing about Banksy's political views beyond perhaps he is slightly leaning to the left, maybe anti-capitalist?
something765478 5 days ago|||
> Authorities on Thursday placed safety barriers around the statue as growing crowds of onlookers gathered

The fact that the statue was allowed to stay up means that the authorities approved it. So, Banksy isn't really counterculture, he's government approved counterculture.

justsid 5 days ago|||
It’s hardly Banksy’s fault for getting famous. Was Banksy supposed to stop creating art once it was no longer being washed off and seen as a nuisance?
mindslight 5 days ago|||
Your assumption that government power will invariably be (ab)used to oppress messages the people in government do not like is a dynamic of fascism, not a universal truth.
blockmarker 5 days ago|||
We aren't talking about a painting in a private gallery, it's a big object in the middle of the street. If it was actually unauthorized it would be removed, even if the British government respected free speech. If artists could actually place at night their works and not be removed, the streets would be blocked due to the number of statues. This clearly seems to be a sponsored work with typical Banksy marketing, like the work that got half-shredded at its auction.
mindslight 5 days ago||
Regardless of whether the physical placement was authorized or not, my comment still applies regarding the specific content of the message.

Authorization could be done with permits, or just tacitly by the notability of the artist. And while one can kind of do some handwaving and liken the latter dynamic to some mild corruption, that is still nowhere near the level of motivated corruption under fascism. And at this point comments invoking phrases like "established media" and "global bureaucratic regime" have a general thrust of pushing us away from liberal institutions and towards fascism, so I find those appeals quite disingenuous.

sadmad 4 days ago|||
[dead]
mindslight 5 days ago|||
It's nonsense. Reactionaries want to continue hamming up the bureaucratic power structure as the worst thing ever, so people won't focus on the fact that the only solution they are bringing to the table is bog standard autocracy. In reality, bureaucracy has been decent at tempering the exercise of authoritarian power and we've taken that for granted, now at our peril.
dakial1 5 days ago|||
Who do you think he’s referring to here?
Nasrudith 4 days ago|||
I mean, sometimes the status quo is just that you can continue breathing. To be blindly for or against something just because it is the status quo is abject stupidity. Sawing at the bough which you rest upon is not something to be proud of.
kaiwn 5 days ago|||
Every anti-establishment person is the same nowadays. Turns out they didn’t hate the power, they hated not having it. I think it’s human nature.
contagiousflow 5 days ago||
> is the same nowadays

When did that change?

atcol 5 days ago||
Can't upvote this enough.

There's always a response that his work is "anti-establishment", despite it often giving support of the establishment's viewpoints (read: liberal).

The hypocrisy seems lost on his fans/proponents.

Just imagine thinking this piece is somehow anti-establishment / thorn in the side of power, yet it was erected in one of the most surveilled areas in London and he's somehow got away with it?

Give me a break.

ivankirigin 6 days ago||
What is the emblem on the flag? Don't know. What is he fighting for? Don't know. How is he blind? What doesn't he see? What is behind or ahead? Don't know.

Being cynical that all effort is wasted is played out at this point. Fight for something real. Name what you're against. It should be easy in the UK.

tommica 6 days ago||
Yeah, definetly had the city agree to it, no way in hell to sneak a statue like that without the cops getting involved.
robocat 6 days ago||
Apparently not:

  Westminster City Council has told the BBC it did not grant permission, as it was not given advance warning that Banksy's team was planning this installation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4pvyw82exo

Council permits are usually quite public (in my country). Sneaking it in becomes part of the artwork.

vscode-rest 6 days ago|||
The trick is not to sneak it. Hi Viz and some yellow flashing lights. Couple smooth talkers.
consp 6 days ago|||
Pretty much what we learned as student when we were doing something which we technically had no permit for (like digging out some stuff, using it for a theme party and putting it backs few days later). Put on some hiviz and nobody is the wiser.
qazxcvbnmlp 6 days ago||
One can imagine a future where high vis gear becomes a regulated item.
sowbug 6 days ago|||
https://www.welikela.com/richard-ankrom-guerilla-public-serv...
tim333 5 days ago|||
I live in Westminster and we are officially supposed to put our rubbish on the pavement and there are usually no police around. They are just lucky it wasn't taken to recycling in the morning.
gib444 6 days ago|||
Agreed. Also why it's totally inoffensive

(Though it's not in /the/ City of London. That wouldn't happen in a million years! City of Westminster is way more culturally flexible)

tialaramex 6 days ago|||
It doesn't make sense in the City. Waterloo Place, where he put this, has a bunch of statues already for tourists to gawp at, just now as well as "Bloke on a Horse who was an important military leader" there's this guy stepping off his plinth because the flag blocks him from seeing what's in front of him.

The City is dead at night. If an artist wants to put art there, they'd just as somebody else said, dress up like they are workmen and be fine.

peteri 6 days ago|||
I dunno they were flexible with the Piranha art work displaying it in the guildhall temporarily.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2qz89nk11o

encom 6 days ago||
[flagged]
snowwrestler 6 days ago|||
The 2nd level of Banksy’s pranks is how angry they make self-appointed arbiters of what is counter-culture or cringe.
encom 5 days ago||
Banksy is the Taylor Swift of art. Mainstream and banal, but with mass market appeal. Both have talent, obviously, but do not create anything profound or original. I'm aware of both through cultural osmosis, but mostly indifferent towards both - I'm not sure how you read anger from my post.
tim333 5 days ago||
I buy the Taylor Swift comparison but both are quite original. Who did a guerilla blinded by the flag statue before? Who wrote "Got a long list of ex-lovers They'll tell you I'm insane" before?
encom 5 days ago||
>"Got a long list of ex-lovers They'll tell you I'm insane"

The ex-lover theme is pretty much the foundation of blues music. Maybe not in this precise way, but the idea isn't novel. It's not exactly Bohemian Rhapsody. And of course nobody made this exact statue before, but visual irony and public placement is old hat, and in my opinion executed with greater skill before. I mean, blinded man walks off cliff is about as obvious as a slap in the face. It's the fast food of art.

Banksy is over-rated is what I'm saying.

Ancapistani 6 days ago||||
Perhaps, but he’s also a talented artist.

One of my favorite contemporary musicians is a Socialist Filipino rapper who lives in LA. I can enjoy the music while finding the ideology abhorrent because they are two separate things.

hristov 6 days ago||||
Reminds me of this great Steward Lee quote (paraphrasing from memory): "When I was young a lot of people accused me of being a champagne socialist. If they only knew how wrong they were. I was a cocaine communist!"

Criticizing someone of being popular is just a way to silence them. If they are popular then they are "cringe", and if they are unpopular, they can be safely ignored and that statue would have been removed by the police and forgotten without any news coverage.

Banksy may be popular, but he is not completely establishment, because well look at the statue. Its an obvious critique of the Iran war, and yet the Iran war still grinds on and UK bases continue to be used for Iran war operations. So apparently there is someone in the establishment that does not agree with Banksy. Someone boldly stepping into the void.

BoingBoomTschak 6 days ago||||
"The Underground is a Lie", successful version.
lucketone 6 days ago||||
Somebody has to enlighten mimosa-party participants about socialism.
phba 6 days ago|||
Not just him, but all the people in his cultural sphere. I've been to a Banksy exhibition, and it also had videos of "critics" commenting on his work. The overtone was how inspiring and brave it is to protest things like war and injustice nowadays in a western country. It's repulsive how ignorant these people are towards their own privilege, while taking the moral high ground and lecturing others.

And of course there was a fucking gift shop at the end.

dyauspitr 6 days ago||
There’s nothing repulsive about people being opposed to war.
daseiner1 6 days ago||
seems missed in the general commentary that there is also an inherent commentary on the western tradition of “blind justice” https://i.etsystatic.com/13403651/r/il/40b0bf/6851322246/il_...
danparsonson 6 days ago|
How so? The concept of the 'blindness' of justice is antithetical to blind patriotism.
daseiner1 5 days ago||
> The concept of the 'blindness' of justice is antithetical to blind patriotism.

exactly. i mean only to point out that the Banksy work intentionally invokes the figure of Blind Justice to inform the work, however you may interpret it.

seydor 6 days ago||
Anyone else leaving up a huge statue in the middle of the park would be arrested
SamBam 6 days ago||
Presumably Banksy and associates would have been arrested too if they had been caught. This whole thing relies on doing it in a way that people don't question it while it's happening.
arrrg 6 days ago|||
Yeah, and that is precisely the point.

This contradiction at the heart of it does a lot of work and is a very valuable part of the art. This contradiction has led me to think a lot about rules and their role in society and to what extent pure strict rules based societies are a worthwhile goal and on the other hand what it means of we make exceptions.

seydor 5 days ago||
This is a joke right? If elon musk had done the same thing (which he obviously could) i don't understand what is the value
arrrg 5 days ago||
If Elon Musk did this because he wanted to (not make a statement, just to achieve some other goal he has) then that‘s not really art. If he did it to make a statement about how different rules apply to billionaires and he wanted to point that out then that to me would be an interesting artistic expression, sure (though he probably wouldn’t do that).

For well more than a century artists like Duchamp (e.g. Fountain from 1917) have been playing around with what turns something into art and makes it valued and where then line between art/not art is and what that has to do with explicit and implicit rules.

To me graffiti in its contemporary form in general but also specifically Banksy is a pretty natural continuation from that discourse that fits right in. That to me has always been the additional layer to any work by Banksy, whatever other (often obvious) statement the artwork might make.

tim333 5 days ago||
It's not in a park. It's on the pavement area of a road. For better or worse they don't arrest many people for leaving stuff in the street in London. A fine maybe.
tristanj 6 days ago||
I wish Banksy put the statue a block away at the roundabout at the end of Pall Mall instead. The current spot he picked already has several other statues there. The roundabout at the end of Pall Mall is empty, presently rather dull, and would look much nicer with a statue.

This is the better spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6EmX2jPiaKRNtNtr8 51°30'19.0"N 0°08'16.0"W

jb1991 5 days ago||
I can assure you that they would not have gone through all this enormous effort to quickly install a statue without very careful consideration of the most effective place to do so.
tim333 5 days ago|||
Maybe it's not too late? You could suggest that to the council.
BLKNSLVR 6 days ago||
Isn't that part of the point? To compare and contrast the current world 'leadership' with historical figures (which could go both ways).
bnksnksnkas 5 days ago||
Establishment-sanctioned subversion is not subversion, it's propaganda.
simonebrunozzi 5 days ago||
I tend to like Banksy a lot, even in things that are different than his "usual" style and type of work (graffiti), as in this case with a statue.

More generally, I am wondering if anyone has a good explanation of what makes an artist "click" with the world, become famous, and usually raise the price of his/her artwork. I can bet that today it costs a lot to own anything by Banksy, considering that most of his work is not even "detachable" from its original creation point.

Stevvo 5 days ago|
What raised the price of Banksy initially was that he gave it a price; he was the only graffiti artist doing gallery exhibitions and selling art. Before he put it in a gallery, nobody considered it have any value.
sb057 6 days ago|
Had this statue been erected in 2006, it would’ve been an immortal masterpiece. Had it been sculpted in 2016, it would still have been a great statue but flawed. But it was made in 2026. Alas, what can one say?
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