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Posted by blobmty 5 days ago

DAG Workflow Engine(github.com)
70 points | 55 comments
peterkelly 5 days ago|
I've always been of the view that for a workflow language, you should use a proper, turing-complete functional language which gives you all the usual flexiblity for transformations on intermediate data, while also supporting things like automatic parallelisation of things like external, compute-intensive tasks.

I recommend checking out https://github.com/peterkelly/rex and also my PhD thesis on the topic https://www.pmkelly.net/publications/thesis.pdf.

The gap in flexiblity between DAG-only and a full language designed for the task is a significant one.

ofrzeta 5 days ago||
I guess that ship has sailed and also it's maybe nitpicking but I find it a bit unfortunate to call a new programming language "Rex" when there's already "Rexx" for several decades.
granthamctaylor 5 days ago|||
Yes … config-as-code for orchestration is a mess. A DSL is just kicking the can down the road. Synchronous orchestration is good but you’ll need a lot of utility functions for fan-outs and the like. It is helpful to utilize both synchronous and asynchronous code. It is very difficult to do well. I contributed to Flyte V2 OSS which does a fairly pleasant job.
smartmic 5 days ago|||
I wonder, isn‘t any Lisp, be it Clojure, Scheme, etc. not exactly suited for such tasks?
snthpy 5 days ago|||
Looks cool.

That's kind of my (not the project's) vision for PRQL - a general LINQ type embeddable data transformation language.

Unfortunately no time to work on it these days.

antonvs 5 days ago|||
Do you implement a DAG within your system to act as a kind of well-defined backbone for analysis and execution, or do you dispense with (explicit) DAGs entirely?
mrauha 5 days ago|||
redun is quite interesting in this regard

https://insitro.github.io/redun/

esafak 5 days ago|||
Spark in Scala does the ETL part of this well. The orchestration part is another story.
Moosifer 5 days ago||
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kovariance 5 days ago||
YAML as a programming language is something I consider as an anti-pattern (see AWS Step Functions). Very difficult to read/debug/test. It's better to use a real programming language that compiles into a DAG (e.g. Temporal, Dagger.io).
halfcat 5 days ago|
> better to use a real programming language that compiles into a DAG

Fun fact: a DAG, after topological sorting, is a list

Many people need the efficiency of running things in parallel. But if you don’t (like if you’re running reporting/ETL stuff overnight), you can skip a lot of the complexity and just run a list of tasks in the right order.

Or put another way, before you adopt a DAG orchestrator (and all the time evaluating your options), remember you can just run the same steps as a list and get something shipped, and the DAG stuff is an optimization you can tackle in phase 2.

panda888888 5 days ago||
How is this different from Airflow or commercial data orchestration tools, like Astronomer, Dagster, Prefect, etc.?
hyperbovine 5 days ago|
It's buggier and less functional.
Keyframe 5 days ago|||
quite a statement considering which were mentioned!
SOLAR_FIELDS 4 days ago|||
It's actually a slightly oblong wheel vs a round one
SkyPuncher 5 days ago||
I'm working on something similar as a side project. I'm finding frustration with a lack of repeatability in my LLM flows. 90% of my code is AI written, but most of my guidance to LLMs is not particularly specific. It's "make sure you've read this file", "how does that match against existing patterns", "what's the performance like".

I've ended up building my workflow engine directly in Python, despite YAML being the default choice for LLMs.

I found that YAML had some drawbacks:

* LLMs don't have an inherent understanding of YAML conventions. They tend to be overly verbose. Python code solved this because "good" code is generally as short as you need.

* YAML isn't really composable. Yes, you can technically compose it, but you'll be fighting the LLM the entire time. Python solved this because the LLM knows how to decouple code.

* I want _some_ things to be programatic still. Having Python solves that

* Pretty much any programming language would do. Python just feels like the default for LLM-centric code.

subhobroto 5 days ago||
This is a good exercise but IMHO, when you really start using a workflow for production usecases, you need a a proper, turing-complete programming language as a DSL.

There used to be a project called Benthos (since acquired and rebranded by Redpanda in 2024) that was amazing, that you might want to gain some inspiration from.

However, durable workflows have also gained popular acceptance as functional design reaches a wider audience.

While Temporal is the most popular choice when it comes to durable workflows, DBOS (cofounded by the father of PostgreSQL) is my personal favorite.

At the moment, orchestration in DBOS has certain gaps - you might very well consider spending your effort on closing those gaps. The value there would be phenomenal!

FelipeCortez 5 days ago|
I love Temporal and am DBOS-curious. what do you think DBOS does better?
subhobroto 5 days ago|||
Hi Felipe! Just point your agent at https://docs.dbos.dev/python/prompting and give it a go - you can really play around with it as much as you want and solve real problems you care about than me lecturing you about it :)

That said, DBOS really makes durable workflows accessible and approachable. Having already used Temporal, I think you're really appreciate how quickly you can get started with DBOS. I forget if they support SQLite but if you have a PostgreSQL server set up, you really don't need anything else to write your first few DBOS durable workflows (vs. needing a Temporal server or cluster)

Let me know if I got you interested to try it out. I first learned about Temporal from Mitchell Hashimoto as they were using it for Hashicorp Cloud. Eventually I discovered DBOS and now all my personal projects are on DBOS.

halfcat 5 days ago|||
The entire state is (mainly) two tables in Postgres. Maybe 10 tables total if you’re using all the features.

There’s something about seeing the ground truth, in full, in one place, when you’re trying to understand it, or troubleshoot it.

tibbar 5 days ago||
I was expecting to see some verbose LLM output, but actually the code has a distinctly hand-crafted feel. Nice to see! I'm not sure if "production ready" is a safe claim 7 commits in to a project ;)
afshinmeh 5 days ago||
https://github.com/vivekg13186/Daisy-DAG/blob/main/backend/s...
antonvs 5 days ago||
I've seen LLMs include that exact "production-ready" claim on code they generate. But of course it gets that from its training data.
b4rtaz__ 5 days ago||
It’s interesting to see something new in this space, especially since some people claim that flowcharts will be replaced by AI automation or AI-generated code.

P.S. I'm the author of a similar solution:

* https://github.com/nocode-js/sequential-workflow-designer

* https://github.com/nocode-js/sequential-workflow-machine

purpleidea 5 days ago||
Here's a different kind of workflow engine with a proper DSL. It turns out config management is the same problem as workflow engines, if you use my modern definition of config management.

https://github.com/purpleidea/mgmt/

tedchs 5 days ago||
How does this compare to Temporal? That seems to be the current baseline for application-oriented workflow engines.
halfcat 5 days ago|
Temporal and DBOS are more around the durability guarantees. If you have tasks that are expensive to restart from scratch, or if you have human-in-the-loop approvals, or you have months between steps (e.g. 90-day warranty inspection after installation), you want that durability.
yohamta 4 days ago|
This is a very interesting project, especially since I've been building a similar declarative workflow engine for over 5 years. With a well-designed YAML schema, it's now possible to build workflows with AI agents. I call this "Vibe workflows."

There's no need for humans to write DAGs anymore, yet they remain human-readable. I truly believe this is the future of workflow orchestration.

https://github.com/dagucloud/dagu

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