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Posted by andsoitis 5 days ago

Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to(economist.com)
307 points | 182 commentspage 3
thebeardisred 5 days ago|
> Dopamine neurons respond not to rewards received but to the uncertainty of whether a reward will arrive: the more unpredictable the outcome, the stronger the signal.

This leads me to think about the idea of procrastination as a mechanism of gambling by the sub-conscious. A subversive way of "raising the stakes on the game" in an attempt to "make things a little bit more interesting."

mactavish88 5 days ago||
Isn't one of the core problems here a lack of "healthier" alternatives?

(Not only in terms of tech, but also in terms of ways of living popularized by celebrities, thought leaders, etc.)

jmyeet 5 days ago||
This touches on many issues. It's kind of a confused narrative. Predatory practices against minors (in particular), sign up dark patterns, addictive behavior (eg infinite scroll). I don't think you should bundle all of these together like this.

For example, infinite scroll is a product of a news feed and a news feed is algorithmic. What this produces and what it reinforces in the user is one thing but not really related to some small grey text in an Amazon Prime sign up.

So let's break it down. Some of the issues are:

1. Intent to sign up.

2. Difficulty in cancelling a service. This is what I call the "gym model". Easy to sign up, hard to cancel. This can be handled. California, for example, requires companies to offer online cancellation. Most other states don't. This is so much an issue you'll regularly find advice from people to change their address to California so they get that option. There's no reason why every state or the federal government couldn't do that.

3. Selling of your data. Not really touched here but it's going to be a big issue going forward;

4. Addictive behavior to maximize time spent on platform; and

5. What should we allow or disallow for minors. This is going to be a big issue. We're only at the start of the Age Verification Era (like it or not). But IMHO no company should be talking about how to maximize time spent for 13 year olds. And no advertiser should be able to advertise to minors; and

6. Not really touched here but I'm going to add it anyway. IMHO we give tech companies a free pass for algorithms as some kind of mystical, neutral black box. But everything an "algorithm" does represents a decision humans made to get a certain behavior from what training data is used, what they're optimizing for (eg interactions or time spent) and what features they create.

Platforms now essentially get liability protection from publishing content even though they elevate or suppress content based on what it contains. IMHO this is no different than someone deciding what to publish and being liable for it.

jojobas 5 days ago||
Should this go back all the way to inception of TVs? Cause nobody really wanted to watch endless commercials interspersed with talk shows and pulp series.
intended 5 days ago||
Thank god, and a million times yes.

There is no market if you have no mechanism for price discovery, no meaningful alternatives, users are addicted, confused, and simply unable to switch.

Things WERE better before we combined skinner boxes with ad tech, before we preyed on users and applied every trick in the book to entrap them.

gnarlouse 5 days ago||
nauseating to think that Amazon was only charged $2.5B when they made somewhere around $25-44B off the Iliad cancellation thing.
mayhemducks 5 days ago|
Yes it is nauseating. And it's the norm. Whenever some company finds a way to make a boat-load of money by exploiting a weakness of human nature, the government will demand a portion of the proceeds. It's business as usual, in the USA at least. Even more nauseating is what they could do with that $2.5B...
throwaway27448 5 days ago||
Look it's either this or we adopt an economic strategy that isn't basically "assume the market magically knows what is best"—i.e., communism, as I understand Americans to know the term.
tolerance 5 days ago||
Do you want your fascist/authoritarian government to arrive via buxom CyberTruck or svelte fixie bike?
andy99 5 days ago||
I assume this is about dark patterns but can’t confirm as I’m faced with a cookie wall where I can select from “Manage” and “Accept All”.
Unai 5 days ago||
I got a big "reject all" button just next to the "accept all" one, on mobile.
gavinsyancey 5 days ago|||
I wonder if you're in a region that requires that, while the original commenter isn't?
californical 5 days ago|||
I just got a big

“We respect your privacy” banner, with a big green ok button and a “manage data collection” tiny print text that had consent for everything automatically approved

dangus 5 days ago||
[flagged]
birdsongs 5 days ago||
The point isn't us. You should know that. The point is the 99.8% that doesn't have our skills, and is forced into these dark patterns, by deception or psychological manipulation.
dangus 5 days ago||
Cookie dialogs are the opposite, they are asking for consent up front.

Before they existed websites would just put stuff on your computer without asking. They’re literally a consumer protection.

Direct your outrage elsewhere.

traderj0e 5 days ago|||
The site doesn't put cookies on my browser, my browser lets the site set/get cookies. If I let it.
mghackerlady 5 days ago||||
They're better, but most of them use dark patterns to get you to accept all of them
birdsongs 5 days ago||||
I have no outrage, and for what it's worth, I upvoted you so your comment wasn't killed.

I think you're being condescending though, and missing the point.

dangus 5 days ago||
The point came across to me as a pretty unproductive comment on the design of the website hosting the article rather than its contents, which is why I responded the way I did.

Just like people who will complain about a news site with ads or some other unrelated design feature of the site they don’t like.

Again, if you’re on here you presumably know how to block ads, or cookie dialogs.

EGreg 5 days ago|||
Direct yours
xg15 5 days ago|
...but but but Innovation!
DangitBobby 5 days ago|
Can we not do this type of mocking comment here please?

> But but but <argument I am mocking>

> Shhh! <People I don't agree with> will hear you!

> It's almost as if <sarcastic oversimplification>.

> Tell me you <don't understand topic> without telling me you <don't understand topic>.

xg15 5 days ago||
I'm sorry. Yeah, agreed that this was too much. I was angry because I have seen quite often pushback against regulation that tries to elevate "innovation" as a value in itself, that even trumps other considerations such as safety or whether the innovation in question actually improves things meaningfully. What Meta did felt to me like the ultimate outcome of that thinking.
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