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Posted by jeromechoo 2 days ago

Programming Still Sucks(www.stvn.sh)
703 points | 327 commentspage 3
charles_f 2 days ago|
> The previous captain started a fire because another captain explained internal combustion to him at Captainpalooza 2025, and he wanted to start iterating towards that.

Hey, that's agile!

Such a great write-up!

maxehmookau 2 days ago||
One of the best things I've read this year. Also one of the worst things I've read this year, actually. But also, I enjoyed reading it.
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago|
Thanks man, that means a lot <3
doug_durham 2 days ago||
It sounds like the author shouldn't be in tech. For many, perhaps most of us programming is joy. It's why we started in our teens and have continued for 40 years. This is just a cynical post that adds no new value. We didn't kill the junior training mechanism. Juniors are still hired in the 100's thousands every year. There are valuable things to be said about the impact of AI. This isn't one of them.
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
Programming gives me great joy. I wrote my first batch scripts when I was 6 years old. I got my first job in the industry when I was 20. I'm 41 now. The problem isn't the act of programming.

As to juniors, first time I heard someone brag about AI removing the need to hire juniors was in 2022. every junior I know is struggling to find work. It's not hard to find reddit threads with people sharing their experience to that effect. The fact that some do get hired is not evidence to the contrary.

rustystump 2 days ago|||
I remember being fresh out of school in peek free money era and couldn’t find anything. It was brutal. The only way i got out of it was by accepting help from an uncle who got me an internship at his company. After that one tiny bit of experience, i found a job at a php shop.

I dont think much has changed. It has always been who you know. I was fortunate enough to have an uncle.

Every single new hire i see is either the child of two fango mango parents or a visa. I rarely ever talk to someone with a different background.

In startup world, everyone had theater degrees or dropped out. It was amazing. I miss it.

eloisant 2 days ago||||
> every junior I know is struggling to find work.

They also struggled in 2000, and in 2008. There was no AI at the time.

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago|||
You mean after the dot-com bubble and after the financial crisis? I mean, not to disagree, but what point are you making here?
xboxnolifes 2 days ago|||
Were they bragging?
msie 2 days ago|||
"I wrote my first batch scripts when I was 6 years old." - Wow, that's pretty amazing. What did you write when you were 10? Really curious.
lelanthran 1 day ago|||
> What did you write when you were 10?

Me, personally, a text adventure game filled with bugs that I did not know how to fix. (I realise only decades later that the index into array I was using to store the location references was probably incorrectly calculated when I moved sometimes.)

I learned a lot of programming from books like these (official links, not pirated):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxv0SsvibDMTdGY0VEQzSGZnelU...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxv0SsvibDMTb2VxczM3WGNBLUE...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxv0SsvibDMTRUl3SFRONGN0MFk...

There were more (one had a game called "Rats" and from the description I thought it would be a 3D game, but alas I never got it entered properly and even if I did, I realise now that it probably wasn't 3d rendered).

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||||
Not much for a while, then when I was a teenager I got into Flash / ActionScript, this was around the 2advanced era, if that means anything to you. I did a little bit of that & HTML, CSS and PHP throughout high school, then landed a job in e-mail marketing a few years after I dropped out of school, slicing templates for customers. Been climbing my way up since.
dwd 2 days ago|||
I'm guessing an AUTOEXEC.BAT file to configure DOS settings for different games.
stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
haha close! i saw my mom get frustrated not remembering where her programs were located, so I wrote a little numerical menu for her with her programs listed in order of use. each number was secretly another .bat script that would then go to the right directory and run, for example, WordPerfect for her.
01100011 2 days ago|||
There are way too many people in tech who did it solely for the money. People worry about AI slop but these poseurs have been cranking out garbage for decades. A lot of my career has been cleaning up the mess they've made.
lelanthran 2 days ago|||
> There are way too many people in tech who did it solely for the money.

Well perhaps now, when AI halves your salary, and then halves it again, and the only people left are those who do it for some reason other than a salary, you'll be happier?

01100011 2 days ago||
If AI did that to my salary it would be a nice wage for a job where I sit in a chair all day so yeah.
black3r 2 days ago|||
The difference with AI is that now generating AI slop is much faster than carefully crafted code. So companies began to prefer AI slop.
rustystump 2 days ago|||
Their rollin out the agentic swarm soon… god help me.
LazyGooze 2 days ago|||
[dead]
Madmallard 2 days ago||
"Juniors are still hired in the 100's thousands every year."

CITATION NEEDED

From my perspective it seems like they're just not hired basically at all anymore

oxag3n 2 days ago||
Great read. Got absorbed into few scenes. The scene with applauds played in my head as a silent movie with Charlie Chaplin presenting his perfect plans and crowd applauding unrealistically fast (due to under-cranking) with piano playing Super Mario theme in background.
techteach00 2 days ago||
It's one thing to have to cope with the stress of job obsolescence over a generation but the speed has picked up so much that people just feel rushed and paranoid. Never enough time to settle down and feel secure for a bit.

We all wanted gigabyte per second downloads not gigabyte per second life changes.

asoderlind 2 days ago||
Very well written article, joy to read, which is getting more rare these days.

Also I think it's always worth repeating the risk of losing long-term institutional knowledge when opting for AI as an explicit replacement for junior devs. Another tragic case of short-term gains prioritized over long-term success.

ytoawwhra92 2 days ago||
> A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are.

Did we solve the ageism problem by mistake?

kondov 2 days ago||
I'm doing my best to mimic enthusiasm, but it's becoming harder and harder to do so. I was afraid I was turning into a dinosaur, so I tried to be excited about AI. We can do more with computers, we can build faster, we can prototype, etc. But when you have automation you get people with spreadsheets running the business and this is a little bit too close to an assembly line for my liking.

I guess I'll be in the industry until it eventually spits me out, but if the rippling effects of software being devaluated can be so big that I don't know what I'll even do once this chapter of my life is over.

gitowiec 2 days ago||
"AI didn't take our jobs. Greed did. Same greed that moved factories to Bangladesh and keeps slaves in cobalt mines in the Congo, wearing a new mask." :((( that is sad and so true. Economical thinking should be regulated
monkeyballs 2 days ago|
> The truth is, working in tech always sucked, and never really was what they thought it was.

This is just not true. Working in tech (starting 1989) was awesome for me for at least 20 years, and tolerable for quite some time after. The main reason it began to suck was due to business -- corporate acquisitions and mergers and tech-ignorant MBA decisions, for example -- not tech. Working for a good company, solving fun problems, making meaningful software, collaborating with committed peers, and having (and directly supporting) happy customers was tech heaven.

stevenlangbroek 2 days ago||
i zoomed in on a specific aspect of the experience, that of course doesn't mean everything is bad across the board. i've gotten great joy from programming, especially with other cool people, for most of my life. i'm grieving the loss of that joy, and hopefully, inspiring a few people to start talking to their peers about it, rather than suffering in silence.
SpaceNoodled 2 days ago||
Same old story: it was fun and awesome when you started working in the industry, and twenty years later you're jaded and it sucks.
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