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Posted by holden_nelson 1 day ago

I caught the car(undecidability.net)
52 points | 59 commentspage 2
reflection42 1 day ago|
Wonderful to see a worked example of self-reflection to help uncover what is personally important in work. As many will know, this kind of reflection is close to one of the pivotal exercises recommended in Richard Bolles valuable book on choosing a career or next career step “What Color is your Parachute“.
AIorNot 1 day ago||
So many kids on hacker news

- I’d say SWE is an experienced engineer not a senior developer- for Pete’s sake he graduated in 2023 that was 3 freaking years ago

I’ve been developing production software for 20 years now -

What other profession counts someone with 3 years of professional experience out of college as senior?

Maybe competitive sports? Or academic math?

If it means this kid is smart and good at coding sure ill buy that but experiences and wisdom are something else entirely..

beau_g 1 day ago||
I disagree and think the software model described works better when done well. I have seen this within a company, where both the hardware side and software side used the same titles (senior, staff, senior staff, principal). The hardware side used largely a combination of industry tenure and especially whether they had PHDs/patents/inventions or not to determine these titles, while the software org was very gung ho on using responsibility and influence to determine promotions. The other thing this led to is in the hardware org, often people would get hired on as senior staff or principal, while this almost never happened on the software side (nobody could get hired on as these roles as they couldn't possibly meet the rubric, as it required some outsized impact in the company with thousands of people using software you near singlehandedly developed and maintained).

As other people pointed out in this post in a roundabout way, titles only matter at all internally to a given company. And considering that, compare these two systems; yes the software org in this system does end up in a position where a 25 year old that's been at the company for 3 years could be senior staff, but that's very telling, to do that, they absolutely had to ship something novel, useful to many, and keep it running and good. Knowing that someone is a very well educated graybeard that invented something at Sun in 1989 is also some good information, but from the context of communicating with people in other orgs within a company I don't know so well, it's more valuable to me personally to understand whether they are responsible for a large running process and to what degree, moreso than how long they have been around and what they did elsewhere.

holden_nelson 1 day ago||
Yeah I have similar thoughts. I think you have to just consider the situation holistically. Senior with two years experience? Ok, this person is obviously skilled, and has the ability to create value and have impact, and has seriously impressed people in their org, but they're still early in their career and they probably have future mistakes to make and lessons to learn.
YZF 1 day ago|||
Kind of reminds me of martial arts. You got what some call McDojo's where a 13 year old can be a "black belt" after 9 months vs. more "traditional" styles where after 5 years of hard work you get there. For the traditional styles this black belt is generally views as "serious beginner" or internalizing the basics.

Real learning takes time. Someone with 3 years of experience writing software is at the beginning of their professional development.

Ofcourse time alone is not enough. But time x work x aptitude = progression.

The inflation of "senior engineer" makes us look to many like the McDojo black belts.

ludston 1 day ago|||
Senior Engineer means many different things, even within the same company. It could mean, "This person is more productive than everybody else around them" or it could mean, "This person isn't that great at software development but they know some product area so deeply that it would be too expensive to replace them."
tekla 1 day ago||
Haha, I know people who have worked on designing a single part smaller than a closed fist for over 5 years and were still considered just over junior because they didn't have enough experience with the system it was used in.
ludston 1 day ago||
First of all, congratulations. As somebody that also achieved the senior developer title within the first three years of being hired out of University, mostly by luck: Yay money, but I wasn't a senior engineer really for another five years. For me, I needed to see the long term effects of the changes that I'd made and the software I had written to really understand the difference between cargo cult behaviour and what really mattered for the business I was working for.
theteapot 1 day ago||
Congratulations. It made me remember how proud I was when I became a Senior, and then earned my Super Engineer shortly after. Just recently I've earned my Extreme Engineer title. Good luck on your journey.
holden_nelson 1 day ago|
Thanks! Good luck as you work your way towards Scrum Master ;)
keybored 1 day ago||
> When I had learned that, my first instinct was to be happy for him, proud, impressed, etc (genuinely). My second was to want the same for myself. Badly.

> [...] Think back (addressing you, the reader, now) to the time when you were happiest in your career or academic life. Was it when some sinecurist asshole in a gown handed you your diploma?

Uh, what? This is what this person wanted. Now after the fact they’re an anti-credentialist rebel.

Well, thinking of people who make a lot of money and then insist that money doesn’t matter. It makes sense.

> Going forward, the only person I need to impress is myself.

Thinking of the few things that I take quiet pride in because I only want to impress myself... I keep myself in check by not talking about it. lol.

mnmnmn 1 day ago|
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