Posted by iancmceachern 23 hours ago
That upset me, but now I'm pissed. Now I don't even care about their stupid printers. Now I'd like to waste Bambu Lab's time and cause problems for them.
And also, while this X1C should be going strong for years, my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Less polished or not, they seem like they're still better for consumers even though they are apparently less open than they used to be. But I'm of course interested in hearing what people recommend, too. (I got an X1C because I knew it would be simple, but I don't particularly mind getting my hands dirty or anything. I did build an Ender 3 kit before that.)
So - of course, I swore I would not buy another Bambu. But, when looking at the various pricing and other aspects of competitors - about a month ago I did end-up buying an H2C with double-AMS and an HT - mainly to reduce filament waste, have a larger build volume, be able to use multi-materials for support "quickly" and have active chamber heating for more "engineering" type filaments. Don't believe the hyper about the chamber filter though - I have found with ABS, you still need external exhaust or air filtering as even though the chamber "closes" and recycles via the filter, you still have the "poop chute" venting fumes...
... and of course... even if I wanted to switch to LAN-mode, unfortunately OrcaSlicer does not yet support the H2C... perhaps it never will unfortunately...
Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up.
(Diluted) Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive and a good bed leveling probe has done a lot to make my printer set and forget, no matter which print sheets I use.
The 4 and Core One families never had to do it.
Edit: and yes, it did suck
I'm excited for INDX but going to wait a year or so.
https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-develo...
It's a shame they're going in such an anti-consumer direction, both with their gaslighting customer support and the lawfare against Orca.
However - yes, they did have me perform multiple disassembly/re-connect steps and document, and then of course every question/answer was at least a 24-hr turnaround (some delays were because I keep my printer at my office and chose to work from home a few times), eventually they sent me an entire new Vortek rack - which, once installed worked perfectly.
I was not looking forward to packing the entire thing up and shipping it back.
hmmm - they never asked for the old one back... (hmmm, harvest the servo motor? drag-chains and rods for other projects? Mount it on the wall and use it to store extra induction nozzles? Ideas?)
But it left a really bad taste in my mouth about the company.
Consumers are used to stuff like Amazon customer service. I wasn’t expecting to waste all that time to exchange 1kg of filament. I thought they’d send it out no hassle and take back the defective filament to research it themselves.
So now when I recommend Bambu, I say the printers are great but their customer service is horrible. So be very careful.
I assume you have an ams 2 pro?
And it won’t pull filament when randomly ?
Her also same issue and she’s having to fight them.
Shit is wild.
I feel rather guilty I had an initially good experience with my p2s, but they’ve managed to mess up the firmware or something ….
Now I don’t think I would recommend it to anyone anymore.
I was lucky and they didn’t have any in stock when I wanted to buy…
Now I’m nervous about buying one from anyone.
Bambu has spent a ton of dough on paid advertising via YouTube shills (it is absolutely rampant in that scene - I like the channel Maker's Muse as a notable exception, who also has some funny videos up where he reads emails from various vendors trying to bribe or intimidate him in various ways), and many in the HN crows were happy to parrot their talking points to justify their purchases. A winning marketing strategy.
To this day you end up encountering a lot of people who are under the impression Bambu printers somehow made 3D printing accessible or are the only ticket to a problem-free experience. And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development.
To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did.
You can use their slicer (which works well!). If you don’t want to, you can use one that sends through their Bambu Connect software, which Orca Slicer doesn’t want to support for…reasons. Or you can use it in LAN mode. Or you can just transfer the gcode via an SD card or flash drive like ye olde days.
Despite the tone of the other reply to your question, they are absolutely the easiest printers to work with. I don’t love their new multicolor solution for how slow it is compared to other options, but that would be the only real fault with their newest line.
Extremely basic features (like serial printing) are considered “nice to have”. Some tickets have remained open for over 6 years now and ignored by prusa:
- https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/189 (still open after 6+ years)
- https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/283 (took 3.5 years to acknowledge and fix)
It has been absolutely great and low-effort. I haven't needed it yet, but their printers seem to be focused on easy maintenance by their owners.
I bought a bambu precisely because I don't want to mod the thing with a gazillion custom upgrades like I needed to do with my previous printers to make them work reliably. I just want to press print and... print. Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down. And if you do want to go off the beaten track they have options.
My hobby is not 3D printer tinkering. It's printing stuff to use. This is clearly what bambu market towards and they do the job really well. I know many people in the makerspace community that spend weeks tuning their perfect Klipper setup. Cool but I prefer spending those weeks perfecting my designs instead. It's hard to overstate the difference they made in out of the box capability especially for the price. And their spare parts are decently priced too.
Now if they start locking down the consumables like other evil companies like 3D Systems and Da Vinci XYZ did then yes. Then they deserve all the blame they can get.
The orcaslicer thing I don't know what to think about yet (I have to read up on it) but the discussion here was more about the local mode.
Ps Bambu isn't the only brand I have. But I do like what they've done. It was exactly what I needed.
Ironically I started using orcaslicer recently. It seems cool. But I really just want a working printer. Probably getting a bambu in spite of the angry noises online.
Where is this coming from? You absolutely need to know the ins and outs of a 3D printer. Nozzles wear out, build plates wear out, components need to be regularly cleaned properly and lubricated, you have to keep filaments dry, certain filaments can only be used with certain components, you constantly tweak slicer and temperature settings, ... The list goes on.
3D printers, including Bambu Lab printers, are definitely not easy to use nor are they reliable. They're maintenance heavy. Sometimes you have to do a print multiple times because it'll fail for a myriad of reasons. Maybe you oriented it wrong, maybe your slicer settings are off, maybe it didn't have proper supports, maybe the filament is messed up, ...
I've been doing 3D printing for 15 years so I've been through all the heavy maintenance printers. But most of that knowledge I don't need anymore. First layers are always perfect as long as the bed is properly grease free. The only knowledge I still really need is the design for 3D printing, like overhang orientations, seams etc.
Having the printer give you reminders to do something doesn't mean that maintenance is minimal.
In my experience, having owned 2-other printers prior to an X1C - there is absolutely NO comparison - EVERYTHING was community, Reddit, forum or random YouTube guidance from non-manufacturers.
I do think though, that a little learning and understanding of your tools is such a useful thing practically and creatively speaking, but also ultimately time saving.
Slow, as they say, is fast.
Prusa's MK3S delivered consistently good, zero fuss, straight out of the box prints with auto bed leveling for $999 before Bambu labs even existed at all.
Bambu brought Core XY & multi-filament to the "mainstream" (for however mainstream 3D printing is at all), absolutely, but if you just wanted a 3D printer that consistently worked for an affordable price? Prusa beat them to that by years. They just didn't advertise the shit out of it on YouTube like Bambu did.
Prusa unfortunately then kinda just... relaxed? Not sure what happened, but MK3 -> MK4 was pretty meh, the XL was delayed, the Core One a good response but still lacking on the multi-material front, etc...
And the open source community is open source precisely to drive the state of the art further.
Having respect for other makers doesn't necessarily mean agreeing on everything.
I'm just giving the other side of the story. If you wish to choose another brand you're free to do so of course. Not all my printers are bambu, in fact my latest one isn't either.
Can you agree on not stealing? That's the equivalent of what BL is doing.
What you are complaining about is access to their proprietary, and optional cloud control functionality. I'd like for access to be open there too, but them trying to gate what apps can access to that isnt "stealing" from the open source community.
Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them.
Bambu made real engineering improvements: linear slides, servomotor for feed, accelerometer tuning, etc. Has Prusa finally decided to compete again? A lot of us are willing to give a company more money for being open source, but the basic product can't be too significantly inferior.
It looks like there is at least one linear slide on the Prusa Core One+ so that's a start...
I don’t think they earned it.
I suspect there is a huge number of people out there who bought them who don’t even know what else exists. They saw a YouTuber advertise one on a video making something and decided to buy that.
I’m not saying no one should give out free printers. But Bambu is carpet bombing YouTube, and they require the videos be turned into Bambu ads to do it. Having to show it multiple times, talk about its great features multiple times, etc. i’ve never seen the script but I’ve seen enough videos have conspicuously similar elements promoting the printer to know it must a condition.
The videos I’ve seen where people get a free XL mention that fact, maybe one other, but that’s about it. It’s not hammered on like Bambu seems to want.
I was recommending Prusa to everyone who inquired about 3D printers for many years before Bambu launched, so I’m not unfamiliar with the market.
Trying to criticize Bambu for sending a lot of printers to YouTubers is ironic when Prusa has always done the same thing.
1) The people around me who bought a Bambu P1S or P2S weren't swayed by marketing. Some of them even owned Prusa machines. They bought those Bambu printers because they had products they needed printed, and the Bambu got it done while the Prusa failed prints and made them dork around with things.
2) The A1 minis are cheap and look good to consumers; they also work remarkably reliably. Prusa doesn't have anything even remotely in the same class. That is squarely the fault of Prusa.
3) A lot of people who don't know any better can go to Best Buy and buy a Bambu in stock, off the shelf, with a return policy. Again, the fault lies squarely with Prusa.
4) The Bambu printers had fundamentally better components like linear slides and servo motors, for example. Again, fault to Prusa.
Prusa got caught with their pants down and refused to adjust for far too long. Bambu did genuine engineering while Prusa rested on its laurels.
3) is marketing and access to capital that Prusa don't have. 4) Prusa is of similar quality in my experience, or both machines have their problems for different reasons. I would need to run a scientific experiment.
There is no argument in which Bambu succeed solely on technical merit alone. Bambu can outspend Prusa due to access to venture capital funding and state support. That is a structural advantage that cannot be easily overcome.
Now I am rebuilding my old Ender 3 with Openbuilds parts into a CoreXY setup, all metal hotend, sturdier metal frame, and the newer RAMPS board with a raspberry pi and klipper setup. Don't know enough about the multi tool related things, but maybe I am gonna focus on that afterwards.
I am having tons of fun while doing so, it has been quite a while since I rebuilt my Anet A8 into an AM8 with a custom Marlin firmware back then.
And if you really want “open”, there’s isn’t much better than a Voron in that aspect.
This move does not surprise me at all, and I'm genuinely happy that Louis is willing to shell out money to help those that can't defend themselves.
I'm happy that Bambu finally made Prusa care, but I will not cheer them even if they consistently innovate. It's just sad.
Three years later, they have unreliable printers that are difficult to maintain.
I have a five year old Prusa, still working very nicely, and it's still a tool and not itself a hobby.
Bambu are appliances. They can work great out of the box, but appliances do not have upgrade paths. You do not upgrade a microwave, you throw it out and get a new one. Or maybe it's more like a fridge, you can limitedly repair some bits, but you cannot wholesale upgrade from V1 to V2.
Anyways bought the core one a few months ago, on kit, and did the whole assembly. The assembly was fun, and the resulting printer has been great. The print fails I had were all easily understandable, entirely due to adhesion issues to a dirty print plate.
I also ordered the indx and am looking forward to capabilities that are not possible with the AMS system. I'm more of an artist though, so I'm looking for interesting and cool ways to make things, not just 3D printing figurines or sculptures etc.
I see it as buying printers design for industrial usage versus printers for hobby. Prusa is selling me a tool that just works every time.
I'm really getting too old dealing with morons who didn't learn anything after the same patterns repeating for decades now.
I support him even though people can pick him apart.
Lois Rossmann has always been ranting in his video, but originally he did so while repairing Macbooks. I actually learned a few tricks watching his videos. Now, he is just sitting down talking, adding drama and outrage to news stories relevant to what he advocates for.
I mean, we need people like him, like we need people like Richard Stallman, but I personally prefer more nuanced approaches.
It's legitimate annoyance and anger at the state of affairs and calling it "drama" implies that it's performative and/or unwarranted.
I’ve never seen this Louis guy but those sure sound like the words of a drama and outrage enthusiast.
This story is at the heart of everything that's wrong with consumer rights these days - digital locks, coercive upgrades, removing features after the sale, AGPL violations, and legal bullying of independent developers, enthusiasts, and hackers.
The original title was needlessly inflammatory, Louis put up $10,000 to cover this person's legal fees should they fight Bambu's bullshit threats. It's in all of our interests to fight this, as consumers and as members of HACKER news.
They didn't need to. Describing it as "just" drama means that you find the subject matter performative and unwarranted, that's what makes something "just drama".
> I hope I never produce the words "return to mindless consuming" just because someone dared to criticize my idol
I invoked "mindless consumption" because of how ridiculously dismissive they were acting towards the discussion about consumer rights, i.e. mindful consumption.
Criticize him all you want, but don't get upset when someone calls you out for criticizing a baseless straw man.
The argument is that a mindful consumer would see that Louis Rossman is, in his way, arguing for consumer rights.
I don't think that counts as ad hominem.
> it’s not drama because it’s not interpersonal gossip, it’s right to repair activism.
He has definitely engaged in dramas that have nothing to do with right to repair activism, including weighing in on dramas between other tech YouTubers.
He hit a niche with right to repair and has produced a lot of content about it, but he has also ranted about a lot of completely unrelated topics. Does nobody remember his old videos rambling about women and gender topics, for example? This is going way back, so possibly before many new converts were introduced to his channel.
His channel has definitely not only been right to repair.
No one remembers these because they don't exist.
He gets a bunch of things wrong since it's mostly reactionary content but he is willing to correct himself when he gets things wrong.
He does a lot to prevent companies from screwing over customers and that in of itself is good enough that in willing to overlook his flaws
Not Just Bikes makes reddit posts for redditors in YouTube form, basically. Louis actually supports people and projects. There's no 'schtick', consumer repair is core to his business and his channel.
I don’t understand why an article from Tom’s Hardware about an opinion of Louis Rossman who tells a 3D printer maker to go fuck themselves is currently the most upvoted article on HN.
I can hardly believe headlines like these are met with anything but cheers. It’s literally the hacker spirit in the classical sense: a big company is trying to legally threaten a project offline, and people like Louis are helping prevent that.
You could at least throw in a “it’s cool that he’s pledging money” before insulting his channel. And if his channel wasn’t as political as it is, it’s doubtful he could rally the kind of support we’re seeing here.
My point is that I have an issue with his tone and rhetoric, not with the thing he’s advocating.
He appeals to a certain audience that likes rage over proper discourse. I am fairly certain the HN etiquette prefers proper discourse over rage.
This is often a hand wavy excuse by people who simply don’t agree with a cause and/or think it’s not important, but won’t admit it. If you don’t think what he is advocating for is important just say so. If you do, support him. You can’t possibly believe he’s so out of line that it’s worth prioritizing that opinion over the cause itself.
It’s just that his style is really appalling to me. Am I not allowed to criticize his style while at the same time supporting his stance?
I think it’s unfair to then imply I must not be admitting that I’m against his cause and using it as an excuse, because nothing I have said indicated this.
Sure, I’ll pledge $10K to the developer who already declared that he’s not interested in fighting a legal battle for this project. That’s easy.
The bounties are real and awarded [1].
Also that site is a disaster of a UI. It reloads on every single character entry while you’re trying to type in the search term.
Also please don’t fake-quote other people with things they didn’t say:
> > Sure I'll post a snarky comment without getting familiar with the subject whatsoever.
It’s even worse when you haven’t become familiar enough with the subject to share a worthwhile link.
I much prefer channels that don’t use this way of gaining views, but they, because of that, don’t gain nearly as many views.
I have no skin in this game, but it’s pretty clear what the majority of viewers want.
Don't worry, we'll drag your lazy ass long while we clean up problems that you don't care to help fix.
Does he? Intentional misrepresentation is one thing and inadvertent inaccuracies quite another.
I don't think an opinion becomes more based in reality by sticking the words "As a matter of fact" in front of them.
What you described is an observational bias. His job is to bring this kind of anti-consumer shit to light. Hence, the drama.
If not, why should he stop?
Although I have to say, I think Louis was making better videos when he was in New York. I understand the financial situation where New York really abuses people, but I am just looking at the videos. I can't say whether that decision was what changed, but I noticed that the content changed a lot once he relocated outside of New York.
However had, I disagree with the "drama" comment. I would call it more that the movement became more important, which is fine, in my opinion. Right to repair isn't that different from many other movements where we people try to get more rights back again. See the right to videotape public officials in performing their public jobs and so on. It is all connected.
When there is drama as far as I can tell he always had pretty solid reasons to be dramatic. It isn't drama when you have real reasons. Drama implies making shit up. Point to the shit he made up. Go ahead. Be specific.
Your accusation there makes it sound like he makes up some minor personal issues and blows them up as rage bait. As if the lock in and enshittification he advocates against are just his personal opinion. They are not. The vast majority (last time I checked >80%) of the public shares the opinion that you should own the equipment you buy and that it should be repairable.
If you happen to be a person that tries to establish neo-feudalism at the cost of everybody else, a public figure successfully making that an issue, might be problematic for your goals, sure. But then your goals may just be beneath contempt anyways and you should working on becoming a productive member of society instead.
If you think it is a shtick because you haven't really looked into it that much and you have a contrarian reflex, maybe try to bring the receipts next time. You know, like:" Louis Rossmann is a drama queen because remember when he said X about Y? Remember when he said Y about Z? It turned out to be Q and Louis had to know it was Q" etc.
Rossmann turned his YouTube fame into political advocacy for a popular topic, that he politically represents. Don't like that topic? Don't watch his content. People change and so does the focus of their life.
I run an university electronics workshop and the issues he mentioned are the issues I have to deal with every week, be it some shitty vendor lock-in on some gear or equipment where just the part that dies first is proprietary and service-hostile.
I have never had a problem with the software, the outrage is totally manufactured to have something to complain about. Louis was fun to listen to for a while, but his schtick is so tired now.
I don’t recognize the name and for some reason the article never gives a single sentence of context just expecting you to know the same way things expect you to know who Trump or Taylor Swift is.
I even watch a few 3D printer and maker YTers, but I guess not him.
He has (or had, not sure) an electronics repair shop where he showed laptop and phone repairs on his channel. Recently he is one of the people who push right to repair regulations and consumer rights. Which is probably why he is interested in this case.
Saying anything less than glowingly positive about Rossmann is dangerous due to his fan base, but I think this mentality of pre-forgiving his misinformation is not healthy.
Being passionate and putting on a vulnerable schtick shouldn’t excuse someone from misleading their large audience.
Rossman is a drama YouTuber, like many others. This is an entire YouTube genre. Most of them have the same schtick where they appear to be the most passionate, vulnerable, on-your-side narrator of a story. His schtick is common in the drama YouTuber genre.
You shouldn’t develop such a parasocial relationship with a person that you reflexively defend every topic they engage in. Discuss the topics each on their own factual merits and be prepared to look for second sources. Don’t align yourself with someone because they are passionate and appear “vulnerable”. At the end of the day, you need to remember that putting on this display is how he makes his money. It’s a show.
I dont see how he is “like many others”. A lot of YouTubers cover controversy for controversy sake, or just as material for another sponsored video. He does not do sponsored content, and usually seems to push for something concrete around consumer rights. So I think the comparison to other drama Youtubers is unfair.
In my view, the drama is more a way to draw attention to his activism. He does tend to put his money and time where his mouth is.
But perhaps my view is biased, since I only see the videos the YouTube algorithm suggests to me, and those may be the ones that are more focused on consumer rights than drama. Still, that has consistently been my impression.
Even amongst YouTubers, you can favor facts over emotions (without discarding emotion!) and be a more effective advocate who arms others with both motivation and useful, effective knowledge.[1]
Technology Connections is an educational channel that occasionally offers political commentary. Telling his audience to vote is a call to action, but not the same as organizing. Rossmann is an organizer who engages with policymakers. To treat them as being on the same level is to misunderstand what they are each doing.
Aside: What does "facts over emotion" mean? Aren't facts and emotions orthogonal?
EDIT: I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video, but from what I can see someone tried to make a branch of OrcaSlicer that interacted directly with Bambu’s private cloud APIs to impersonate Bambu Studio. I don’t agree with the legal threats but this case is about connecting to their non-public cloud APIs, not connecting to the printer directly.
It remains astonishing to me that this is controversial. Not everyone has the knowhow to block internet access to their printer, so having a toggle in firmware is terrific. I've verified after turning it on that it never phones home. Couldn't be happier.
Unless you're running qubes or some other virtualization setup their network plugin punctures whatever airgap you put around the printer and also gives them access to your system as well.
I see in my dns logs lots of repeated blocked requests to a Bambu labs domain whenever I have orcaslicer open. I assume it’s so many because it’s getting blocked and retrying.
I just print over lan though. Not using the Bambu servers (or the fork mentioned in OP) It works flawlessly.
Try https://youtu.be/0tdZ5Z7nRDY?si=vjnJ90p6ba_Xik9B for a less emotive take on this specific case, and the closely related matter of Bambu's attempt to circumvent some of AGPL's protections.
No, it doesn't. It used to, but then Bambu Labs "for security reasons" (as always) removed access to their "network plugin".
There is a lot of confusion around this, so: you lose access to bambu cloud, so quick upload, remote printing, remote monitoring of prints, synchronization of filament data, and lots of other useful features.
You get a half-baked "throw it over the wall" way of sending files to your printer using a standalone Bambu executable (largely neglected). Note that this does not provide a way to synchronize the filament list to your slicer before slicing, which is useful and important.
You also get a "developer/LAN mode", which is an either/or proposition. If you turn it on, you lose cloud features. No more remote monitoring of your prints using your phone.
I find it very annoying that Bambu managed to implant this shallow take of "you can use LAN mode so things are fine" in people's minds.
Is it perfect or the ideal solution? Not quite, but it does let me have a fully local bambu printer with any theoretical calling home blocked at a network level.
Getting cloud mode means using Bambu Studio. Getting Bambu Studio means one more notch in slowly getting locked into the walled Bambu garden.
The other thing he released is a klipper firmware for the AMS, BambuLab of course are not happy.
I’m completely against bullying and attempts to lock out open source software from using 3d printers directly; if they locked out OrcaSlicer from direct control I’d have a big problem with that.
But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block. I think a cease and desist might backfire on Bambu but i don’t think it’s unreadable. (Didn’t watch the video. Just getting context from parent comment. )
Even if they have taken away other routes that used to exist so that this is the only way?
I've also been very happy with my A1 (bought ~18 months go), and have since bought a U1 (which has networking problems of its own, but is otherwise a great upgrade) alongside it. Unless Bambu changes its tack significantly I'll not be buying another of their machines or more of their materials¹.
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[1] well, maybe the light grey PLA as I've not yet found anything similar enough easily available in the UK, and it is perfect for prints that I want to look neutral or for some scifi ships & similar…
I’ve only been in the system for a year so I don’t know about the history beyond that. Based on some downvotes + your comment I will look into it further.
I'll chip in to this developer's legal defense fund because I want to be able to do whatever I want with my printer, and "I can't do what I want with my printer" is a bigger problem for me right now than "the developer made a TCP connection on my behalf to a server he didn't own".
I don't accept any "it's fine because you can hack around it". If it needs me to choose between their phone app working or privacy, it's not fucking open enough.
With that said, I don’t think it’s reasonable to describe setting up Tailscale as similar to “Linux server that runs 24/7 with OpenVPN and iptables”. Sure, you could go that route, but a Tailscale setup is extremely simple and lightweight. A raspberry pi is plenty if there isn’t already a system running 24/7. I personally have this set up on my router.
I point this out while still sharing the general sentiment of negativity towards Bambu here.
I find it difficult to imagine equating a raspberry pi in a closet with “running a server”. Is it technically a server? Sure. But it’s not as if we’re talking about running a power hungry rack.
Bottom line is: there are very cheap and simple/easy options for maintaining a private connection to your home stuff.
> and figure out all the networking bits that will get it to talk to the printer
With something like Tailscale this is already figured out. My mostly non technical brother does this without issues.
This is entirely separate from whether or not you should need to do so for Bambu printers, which again I agree the answer is ideally “no”.
The motive appears to be to get tax credits as opposed to becoming a full-on patent troll, though with how quickly China is speedrunning their version of capitalism I would not be surprised if it turns into patent trolling.
Their behaviour overall is really giving me mixed feelings, because the Bambu A1 I have is an absolutely amazing machine for the price, and I've been casually in this since the Printrbot days.
If you invent something and publish it (including by offering it to the public in product) your work constitutes prior art and is an absolute bar against the subsequent (valid) patenting of the invention by a third party. F2F vs F2I has no impact on this.
What F2F means if that if two people working in secret create the same invention and show up at the patent office at the same time-- the first one to file gets it. The earlier F2I scheme instead had a contest where the party that is the most ambitious in fabricating lab notebooks to backdate their invention gets the patent.
Because of a poor choice in naming many people wrongfully assume F2F means you can go pick up other people's inventions out of the public sphere and claim them as your own because you filed first.
The misunderstanding is exacerbated because fraudulently patenting other people's inventions is commonplace-- as there is no consequence for doing so except losing the patent after getting defeated on review/litigation-- but the practice isn't meaningfully influenced by F2F vs F2I.
The implementation of F2I is then the issue. It should be the first to fulfill all of the following requirements:
(1) physically show at least 2 patent clerks the invention,
(2) that the invention works & operates as outlined, with the clerks being the ones to operate the machine, and
(3) a detailed step-by-step guide to the clerk about how the machine works
The date that the patent is awarded should be the date where the last of the 3 actions occurred.
Sure prusa is fine too, and other brands might are getting there too. But if you want to print as a tool I would recommend to just use the tool nearly everyone is agreeing on.
I didn't regret it once, and have 3 printers at this point (2 of which free thanks to Bambu points)
Also I am still amazed that my $150 A1 mini is basically just as good as the X2D or P2S.
That's not Bambu being open, that's them doing the absolute minimum to allow people to say "you can use Bambu printers fully offline" in comment sections.
In LAN mode it’s more complicated. LAN mode requires you to still use their slicer because the majority of functions beyond the extremely basic are still restricted by their authorization layer. This means using their SDK/network plugin for anything you develop, effectively coercing developers into their ecosystem for use-cases by the majority of users.
It seems pretty clear, in my opinion, that what they’re trying to communicate by using the “developer mode” language is that owning your device end-to-end is big, scary, and only for professionals. Oh, btw, developer mode leaves your device completely open and introduces various UX friction points to the experience related to constantly needing to rebind. Effectively it’s malicious compliance on their end. They’re giving the middle finger to anyone who wants to cut them out, and it’s hard to say anyone who feels that way is imagining it.
If so then you could access it over a reverse proxy like Tailscale.
Its trivially easy to set one up these days.
Instead of a Bambu, I got a Flashforge Adventurer 5M. It is incredibly cheap (cheap enough that I am more than happy to replace it after two years if it stops working), and is pretty reliable (compared to the Prusa MK3 and MK3S I had), and most of all, the self-calibration works well enough that I don't spend any time debugging prints that fail at the first layer anymore; I just re-run calibration and it's fine, and if it's not fine, I clean the plate and it works.
It also comes with a terrible slicer (dervied from Slic3r I believe) with annoying "log into the cloud every time you start the app", but I moved to OrcaSlicer. I had to give up a few nice features but it hasn't truly impacted my workflow. And it does receive firmware updates (it's connected via wifi to my home network). My hope- just a hope- is that they don't do anything truly stupid with future firmware updates or end up getting in a hissy fit with prominent youtubers.
But realistically, because if they control how you use your machine, they can start skimming profit off of those digital services every time you print something. That's only works if they have control over how you use the machine in your house.
To outward appearances, they seem to be trying to recreate the printer ink/razor blade business model on 3d printers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor-and-blades_model#Printer...
To reiterate the GP's question: why would I want to do that? In practice whenever I want to monitor anything from anywhere, I just VNC or RDP to my PC.
If it's just about ease-of-use, as the other replies suggest, and not actually gating the functionality of the hardware, I'm having trouble understanding the outrage. It sounds as if they are trying to be the Apple of 3D printing, while also still supporting "sideloading." If the hardware itself isn't locked down, why does anyone care what they do with their cloud service?
OTOH, if the hardware is locked down, then that's what people should be complaining about, not an optional cloud service.
Prusa supports the same thing, though they don’t force you to use it and are VERY clear it’s fully optional.
You can go to their model site (Makerworld vs Printables) and if you’re logged in your can slice and start the print right in your browser. It’s a fantastic convenience for someone printing a lot of pre-made models.
It was always stated by our devs that it should never be connected to anything but a local network. Why? Because you are supposed to be there running the printer...it is a fire hazard otherwise. People do run unattended, myself included, but it should not be advised or hyped as a "good idea".
The possibility of a hack was always there too. What could a malicious actor do with access to your machine?
The advice was not only ignored...but used as an advertising point to show how innovative they are.
Amazing how fast everyone forgot the time Bambu forced a firmware update which caused a large number of printers to begin printing uncommanded which in some cases caused damage due to completed prints still sitting on the bed. [1]
V2 Smoothieware has the ability to auto update firmware via network...but it is a command that requires the user to send.
At any rate...this matters to me little anymore. My printer is a decade old and going strong still. I have no desire to "purchase" any printer. I would just build another if needed.
The biggest lie sold by the marketers is that working on your printer is "lost time". Personally...I am glad I had the 2011 RepRap struggles. I would never give up my opensource hardware for a "cheaper" machine.
[1] I searched for old webpages on this...can't seem to find them anymore using google. It was a very well known issue in the 3d printing community at the time though.
Bambu Labs however, has chosen to market their printers with an app that provides a "one-stop shop" for all things 3D-printer. You can browse their version of Thingiverse (or Printables or Cults 3D) and send jobs directly to your printer. You can also access your printer remotely (read outside your home network without tunnelling/port-forwarding/VPNs) to monitor prints, get notified when a print is done, get notified you've run out of filament, watch the printer work if it's equipped with a camera, etc. etc.
Bambu has been attempting to remove features that enable easy local (not-internet-connected) use cases and force everyone to use the cloud, etc. Or at least make it as painful as possible to skip the cloud.
Relevant context: X1C owner who did not update the firmware that forced bambu's "secure printing" workflow on users that previously used their local network "plugin".
I stopped using Handy, blocked the printer's access to the internet, and ultimately, did not miss a thing. The printer continued to work fine with my slicer of choice (softfever's fork of Bambu Lab studio's fork of Prusa Slicer's fork of slic3r, now known as OrcaSlicer).
Like most things these days, they make a decent printer, but are part of tech's steadfast march to control everything. The twist is that they're in a space defined very much by breaking control.
Not defending Bambu. The UX is quite straightforward and easy, however.
With an Internet connection to their clown, a Bambu Labs printer doesn't require a person to deal with computers in the traditional sense. Like, at all.
The printer can be over there on the table, and a person can use it while sitting on their sofa with the cell phone that's in their hand. There's nothing else required for this to happen. They can browse models, customize them some, and print them all from their phone.
In this way, a person doesn't even need to know how to use a PC in order to casually print some widgets at home.
They don't need to know how networks or VPNs or open Internet-facing ports work, either. They can monitor then print job from anywhere without doing that stuff at all.
They don't need to plug a USB cable in. They don't need to know what an SD card even is.
Head outside, away from wifi? No worries: The printer still works the same whether the user's pocket supercomputer is inside, outside, at the grocery store, or anywhere else.
And for a lot of folks, that's pretty nice. My nephew, for instance, consistently prints amazingly-clean parts with his Bambu Labs machine and he puts zero effort into doing so. For him, at least, It Just Works.
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I can see why some folks in this particular audience may have some trouble appreciating the utility of this kind of apparent simplicity. After all, if there's anything that typifies someone on HN, it is that we're all avid computer users.
But we're weird in this way. Most people are not like this at all.
And to be clear: I myself have zero interest in cloud-oriented 3D printing. But I'm of the weirdest subset: I build my own 3D printers because I enjoy the process of solving the problems that are involved in doing so. If I want to control a printer from my phone from 3 states away, then I'll get that done on my own.
A person may appreciate the utility of this apparent simplicity just fine and still need a different solution for any of a variety of reasons. That doesn't make them weird.
You specifically highlight printing from a phone. Did you notice that the phone doesn't remove the ability to communicate over the cellular radio or the bluetooth radio just because a user might find the wifi radio convenient? It would be weird if it did.
So it's a nice to have thing, but it could have very easily been optional. Instead they made it so that every print, even ones sent from Bambu Studio, has to go through their servers(unless you enable Lan mode)
Using a cloud service means all your designs are submitted to Bambu and that means that they have the ability resell this intelligence information to the CCP and friendly entities, subsidizing the cost of their products and allowing Bambu to achieve unprecedented price/performance.