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Posted by dropbox_miner 17 hours ago

I'm going back to writing code by hand(blog.k10s.dev)
807 points | 480 commentspage 10
imperio59 16 hours ago|
Alternate title: "I did not understand the current limitations of AI and assumed it could do large software design and it generated spaghetti slop"

Yea, that's why engineers are still very important for now (until models can do this type of longer term designs and stick to them).

Fokamul 8 hours ago||
I also code by hand.

But in my main work, reverse engineering, LLMs are godsend, for years now.

You can basically bruteforce binary obfuscation thanks to them. And thanks to eager chinese LLM providers, basically for free.

But I always use LLM only for boring work and rest is for me to do manually, or with scripts of course, but made by me. Because I want to learn.

Yes, there are a lot people using LLMs for full RE automation since they're selling exploits for profit. No problem with me.

I see funny future for huge corporations like Adobe, etc.

Imagine prompt, "Hey Claude, re-implement Adobe Photoshop with clean-room design" One agent will open decompiler, outputs complete low level technical details how is everything implemented.

Second agent implements new Photoshop based on that.

They will be mad and I like this.

You will own nothing, and you will be happy, corpos.

bbbflgllglhlld 12 hours ago||
Luddite.
recursive 12 hours ago|
Seems to be an unstated assumption that the Ludds were wrong.
UrbanNorminal 11 hours ago||
Wow ok, I will too then. Fuck AI!
FpUser 13 hours ago||
>"I'm doing the design work myself, by hand, before any code gets written."

This is what I was doing right from the beginning. AI just fills out methods and doing other low intelligence work. Both are happy. My architectures and code are really mine, easy to read and reason. AI gets paid and does not get a chance to fuck me in the process. At no point I felt any temptation to leave "serious" to AI.

scuff3d 15 hours ago||
I feel like this article was circling a point it never actually got to. All the advice in here (except controlling scope creep) is specific to a TUI with an elm like architecture.

But here's the thing, you almost never know what the architecture is up front. If you do you probably aren't the one writing the actual code anymore. Writing the code, with or without an AI is part of the design process. For most people it isn't until they've tried several times, fucked it up a bunch, and refactored or rewrote even more that you actually know what the architecture needs to be.

photochemsyn 16 hours ago||
Does ‘writing code by hand’ mean you’re not going to use compilers to generate assembly?

Now I do feel lucky that I started learning coding about four years before the LLM revolution, but these things are really just natural language compilers, aren’t they? We’re just in that period - the 1980s, the greybeards tell me - where companies charged thousands of dollars per compiler instance, right? And now, I myself have never paid for a compiler.

This whole investor bubble will blow up in the face of the rentier-finance capitalists and I’ll be laughing my head off while it happens.

green_wheel 15 hours ago||
Nondeterministic natural language compilers
photochemsyn 14 hours ago||
Just because the trajectory is chaotic doesn't mean it’s not deterministic.
zephen 3 hours ago||
A model, given exactly the same inputs, will return exactly the same outputs.

But your prompts are not the only inputs. Among other things, there is a random seed injected by the vendor.

That is a primary source of non-determinism.

Then, of course, is the fact that you don't personally have an old copy of the model, and the vendor isn't going to keep the model forever, and there are no unit tests to make sure that, faced with prompts like you gave it before, the newer models won't suffer major regressions in the functionality you were using.

And even if there were no non-determinism, the models suffer greatly (much more so than traditional compilers) from the butterfly effect.

It is literally impossible to pin down part of your prompt in such a way that it always will contribute to good outcomes, and such that you can simply vary a tiny bit of the prompt to logically correlate with tiny variations in the output.

platevoltage 14 hours ago||
So C++ doesn't count as code now.
kypro 16 hours ago||
> I learned over these 7 months

7 months ago was early November. Coding assistants were getting very good back then, but they were still significantly poorer at making good architectural decisions in my experience. They tended to just force features into the existing code base without much thought or care.

Today I've noticed assistants tend to spot architectural smells while working and will ask you whether they should try to address it, but even then they're probably never going to suggest a full refactor of the codebase (which probably is generally the correct heuristic).

My guess is that if you built this today with AI that you wouldn't run into so many of these problems. That's not to say you should build blind, but the first thing that stood out to me was that you starting building 7 months ago and coding assistants were only just becoming decent at that time, and undirected would still generally generate total slop.

lacymorrow 6 hours ago||
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luodaint 5 hours ago|
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