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Posted by rdslw 1 day ago

The Emacsification of Software(sockpuppet.org)
331 points | 210 commentspage 4
RickS 19 hours ago|
I agree, experience this, love it, etc.

The "0% product hunt, 100% show and tell" bit is one of the benefits of an ecosystem with painfully high upfront entry costs.

Does anyone know of an active forum of any kind (discord, reddit, phpbb, mailing list, whatever) for people who are building personal applications like this for love of the game, which takes hardline stances about desirable vs undesirable motives and behaviors, and enforces high entry/participation costs in exchange for unusually low quantities of transient grifters and self-interested status seeking by day-old accounts?

argee 17 hours ago|
If you’re building for the "love of the game", aren’t you unlikely to post an artifact that is produced towards the end of your project and targeted towards a publication (e.g. hacker news)? I recall Mitchell Hashimoto was saying he used to browse GitHub as if it were a social media (which it is) - perhaps that’s your jam.
malicka 18 hours ago||
Speaking of which, Emacs’es markdown-mode is pretty good. :^)
tptacek 18 hours ago|
Emacs is an editor! God help you if you do something to my computer where when I click on a Markdown file something changes in my Emacs window setup.
melonpan7 14 hours ago||
The barrier to entry for writing personalized software is lower, but you still need expertise for instruction and maintenance.

I don’t think we’re at the point where any random stranger on the street can get Claude to make a perfect Electron app for their use case.

__MatrixMan__ 14 hours ago||
If you were building it for yourself would you ever chose Electron?
melonpan7 14 hours ago||
Merely an example but I would not, one of my gripes with LLMs is the training on general sentiment and trends, so they tend to recommend whatever is popular.
tptacek 14 hours ago||
This is an article about nerds writing nerd software.
j2kun 19 hours ago||
> You want a good Markdown viewer more than you think you do.

> monospaced and thus fatiguing to read.

Monospaced text is fine. I don't see how people who read code (and code comments) all day care that strongly about this. Plaintext is king

tptacek 19 hours ago||
There's a reason we're not reading monospaced here, and a reason we do read monospaced code.

But the beauty of this moment is that if you want a really good SwiftUI monospaced Markdown reader, you can have it before dinner. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have an idiosyncratic personal preference, and it's now reasonable to expect software to shrink-wrap around that preference.

j2kun 16 hours ago|||
Generally I just don't appreciate when someone jumps from "I care about this" to "everyone cares about this for obvious reasons." Focus on what something means to you, and being sincere about it. But that is just my advice for writing, take it or leave it.

Also, are browser text area inputs monospaced by default for everyone? Or did I configure that for myself long ago and forget? If it's not just me, maybe the "reasons" you're alluding to are not so obvious. Anyway, I have no trouble at all reading the long comments I type into text areas.

And more power to people for embracing agency :)

userbinator 10 hours ago||||
There's a reason we're not reading monospaced here

You underestimate the number of HN users who are reading this site in their terminal. ;-)

elch 7 hours ago|||
I get 429s all the time trying to read this site in lynx or any non-mainstream browser (w/o JS).
tptacek 9 hours ago||||
I'm genuinely surprised by the monospace cheering section!
minikomi 6 hours ago|||
Hello from eww
applfanboysbgon 19 hours ago|||
> a reason we're not reading monospaced here

Legacy decisions as a remnant from a time when taking more space on paper cost pages and therefore resources, remaining as a default from centuries of inertia in how text is printed?

tptacek 19 hours ago||
No, prose set in monospace is harder to read. The "legacy" is monospace! We went way out of our way to to get proportional typesetting working.

But seriously: you do you. There are people who code in proportional typefaces and they're as baffling to me as you are right now. Let a thousand Markdown viewers bloom.

applfanboysbgon 19 hours ago||
> The "legacy" is monospace! We went way out of our way to to get proportional typesetting working.

The legacy is proportional, at least in Latin script and its ancestors. Handwriting was proportional, of course, and so was Gutenberg's printing press. Books and newspapers have virtually always been printed in proportional type.

In Chinese and Japanese, monospace is legacy in both handwriting and print... and also still universally used today. All Chinese and Japanese text is monospaced by default. Billions of people are getting by just fine reading monospaced prose.

I don't really know where this conception that monospaced is somehow objectively harder to read is coming from. Actually, this is the first I've ever heard of the complaint. I can't help but wonder if you've been subjected to some very bad monospaced fonts in prose or something.

mrob 18 hours ago||
Monospace text is objectively less dense, which means you have to move your eyes more. Every eye movement is an opportunity for error. Monospace text only makes sense when seeing exact character counts matters (which it often does in computer code).
applfanboysbgon 18 hours ago||
One could argue that less density, as well as standardised widths, significantly reduces opportunity for error compared to cluttered text that is constantly varying how it is displayed. Perhaps moving your eyes more increases opportunity for error by 10% but easier-to-parse characters decreases the opportunity for error by 20%?
richiebful1 17 hours ago|||
There's limited research on readability of monospaced font. But this study suggests monospace is weakly more readable than variable-width font:

https://dl.acm.org/doi/epdf/10.1145/2897736

kanbankaren 18 hours ago|||
Surprised that Monaspace hasn't been mentioned below.

https://monaspace.githubnext.com/

layer8 19 hours ago|||
Turn off syntax highlighting for your code, translate it to COBOL, and pass it through a formatter that converts it to continuous word-wrapped text. Then we’ll talk again.
j2kun 17 hours ago||
I have written multiple books entirely in LaTeX edited with neovim. So... your point is not taken.
tptacek 17 hours ago|||
I'm a fan of your writing, all the more because you've somehow managed to do all of it in monospace. :)
layer8 17 hours ago|||
Authoring is different from reading.

And why did you author them in LaTeX if you think reading in monospace plaintext is fine for everyone?

jsw97 19 hours ago|||
There is a real use case for a viewer if you have a lot of formulas. Yes you can read the raw latex but you go cross-eyed after a while. Maybe I am a softie though.
j2kun 17 hours ago|||
I agree, but I don't think the author of this blog post is coming from that perspective, and markdown renderers of the sort described in the post tend to do pretty poorly with math typesetting.
il-b 18 hours ago|||
The dislike of code per se is what drives these people to use agents in the first place.
jrm4 16 hours ago||
Nothing personal but I hate this take with a passion, and I literally think it's representative of the worst attitude in computing because it's the literal opposite of software SHOULD BE.

The whole entire point of computers in their best light is changeable software, the whole point should be "let people read how they want to."

jzer0cool 7 hours ago||
Any good md viewer and open to customize some formatting to pdf?
internet_points 6 hours ago|
emacs + pandoc
001110101111 6 hours ago||
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ketan_around 11 hours ago||
Emacs was the first vibe-coding.
rirze 11 hours ago|
It was also the most prominent ecosystem for "software-for-one". Lots of custom-bespoke, "it works for me" packages that were only created for personal use.
tolerance 17 hours ago||
I came here to recommend Marked: https://marked2app.com

But...I like MDV.

LAC-Tech 6 hours ago||
I know this is a bit beside the point of the article, but I also got sick of reading markdown on a terminal...

So I asked my agent to write typst, ran "typst watch", and now I can look at a nice pdf file. it even auto-refreshes when the clanker changes it.

Pelllegrini 13 hours ago|
I just use Silverbulletmd...
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