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Posted by tencentshill 5 hours ago

U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app(macdailynews.com)
281 points | 169 commentspage 2
1vuio0pswjnm7 2 hours ago|
There are HN commenters ("developers") that want readers to believe that telemetry should be on by default. Maybe some readers, e.g., other "developers", think, "Yeah, that sounds reasonable" so long as the telemetry collecter is a random "developer" and not the government. But they probably fail to consider that this collected data is just a subpoena away from going to the government

Corporate mobile operating systems suck. Including "apps" to run on them, generally

There are some that do not require corporate approval and do not try to phone home but it's a relatively small fraction

motbus3 4 hours ago||
Will this turn into be a blow to anyone who gains access to the hardware paid with own money?
traderj0e 2 hours ago|
Certain car mods have already been illegal for a long time
opengrass 2 hours ago||
That's why you use Aurora and F-Droid.
lapetitejort 4 hours ago||
I am surprised that a lawsuit started in 2021 about maintaining emission standards survived up to this point. The DOGE search terms must have misspelled "emission"
delecti 3 hours ago||
Alternatively, given who was running the show, lawsuits against ICE cars (non-EVs) might have just been outside the bounds of what they cared about.
lotsofpulp 2 hours ago||
The president's MO is to wait for bribes to whatever coin and then pardon/drop investigation. It's the art of the deal, you have something someone wants, don't give it away for free.
wavemode 1 hour ago||
I had the same thought. I suspect this lawsuit will be dropped once they notice.

Probably if the appmaker donates to the Trump foundation it will be withdrawn within the day.

Danox 4 hours ago||
Get a warrant…
tamimio 2 hours ago||
I somehow suspect this is a pretext to ban OBD monitoring/control tools. I have two in my car, one to monitor everything and log the performance, the other to control the gas intake accurately and safely as opposed to non-obd ones. I hope obd won’t become like radar detectors.
Simulacra 4 hours ago||
Sounds like I need to download this app..
caminante 4 hours ago|
If you start tuning, then make sure you turn it off before bringing your car to the dealership.

It'll void any warranty.

rootusrootus 3 hours ago|||
> It'll void any warranty.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act disagrees with you.

caminante 2 hours ago||
What is your understanding of the Act and its limitations [0]?

Here's a legal view that explains it further [1].

Basically, they can deny warranty service if you make modifications, and they can tie it to a failure. You can add 100s of HP to your engine profile with these things, and why would it be reasonable to expect a manufacturer to warrant related component repairs if they're pushed beyond spec?

Here are relevant quotes, and []'s are mine.

> The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act requires manufacturers to honor their warranties and auto manufacturers only warrant their vehicles against manufacturing defects. Your claim here could be denied because the failure was not due to a defect in a factory component. It was caused by something added to the car[...] That system caused a non-defective part to fail. Your mod did not void the [entire] warranty. It’s just that the failure was not caused by a factory defect.

> Obviously, an aftermarket camshaft or a hopped up ECU won’t void the entire warranty on your car. The master cylinder failed? The blue tooth quit working? Unless there is a logical connection between the mod and the part or system that failed, you should be good to go.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

[1] https://lehtoslaw.com/will-modifications-void-new-car-warran...

rootusrootus 44 minutes ago||
> What is your understanding of the Act and its limitations

They can deny a claim. You can challenge that, they will need to prove the modification caused the defect. They cannot void your warranty, in whole or in part. The most they can do is make a note of your modification and then use that as a reference going forward to deny individual claims as they happen.

You might argue that they are likely to win those claims, because they have the engineer who will show up in court to explain why your modification was the problem. On that I'd agree. But they'll have to do that for every claim they deny (assuming you take them to court).

AlexandrB 3 hours ago||||
Consumer rights are in a dire state. Reminds me of Toyota claiming someone voided their warranty by driving their racecar too fast[1].

[1] https://www.motor1.com/news/729265/toyota-gr-corolla-warrant...

caminante 1 hour ago||
Damn. You get a complimentary track day, but Toyota said going 114 MPH is abuse. Both cars were just serviced.

Adding insult, one guy had his comprehensive insurance coverage lapse right before!

Yaa101 4 hours ago||
Welcome to our brave new digital world, governments and DOJs do this because now they can, I am afraid this is only the beginning.
goolz 4 hours ago||
The saddest part is, most people simply do not care, my parents constantly echo the sentiment that if I have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear. I would argue this slippery slope came about 20+ years ago during the initial Patriot Act. They normalize the behavior, take a few more freedoms, and keep on trucking. I used to be proud to be American. Now I am just worried.
forshaper 42 minutes ago|||
I used to be a proud patriot. Now I am just owned.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4 hours ago|||
I understand why they don't care and I don't fault them. The truth is that this doesn't affect most people in their daily lives. It sounds entitled to say that this demands their attention.
goolz 3 hours ago|||
A totally fair point, and I think you are correct, wish I knew a solid answer. Because their indifference is watering down all of our rights.
bigyabai 3 hours ago|||
It affects everyone, the question is whether or not they're held to account. Some people think of themselves as low-risk until they're detained at the border for a Facebook post they made.
jayers 3 hours ago|||
How is this, in principle, any different from the DOJ using a subpoena to get customer records from an adult store that was allegedly selling illegal explicit material?

Just because you use the internet to commit the crime doesn't make it not a crime.

xp84 3 hours ago||
I’d say a big difference is that in your example the thing that was supposedly sold was entirely illegal to possess for any reason.

The case being discussed is one where someone might be able to use the product to break the law.

So it’s more like demanding that Home Depot, Walmart, Amazon give the names of every American who’s ever bought a crowbar because the DOJ has heard that some people are breaking into buildings with crowbars.

It has been alleged that the government doesn’t want to prosecute these people who are the ones committing the crimes, they “just want to talk” in order to prosecute the company. Not sure I’d trust that without a signed immunity agreement. If I were forced to speak to these goons, I certainly wouldn’t say a word unless they gave me one of those - regardless of what I was using the gadget for.

basilgohar 4 hours ago|||
Tyranny comes and goes, and sometimes just changes shape and serves some more than others, and that gives the illusion to those it serves that it's gone. It's always been around in some form or another.
shimman 4 hours ago||
Democratic governments can be held accountable, corporations cannot.
sneak 2 hours ago|||
> Democratic governments can be held accountable

Please explain to me how ICE (part of the nominally democratic USG) can be held accountable for summarily executing citizens.

pc86 4 hours ago|||
Even if this was correct (it's not), it seems irrelevant to the point.
jmyeet 4 hours ago||
These companies will likely comply too [1]. Defenders will say "they have to comply with the law" but there's compliance and then there's compliance. For example, an adminstrative subpoena has no power. Companies can and should force the government to go to court and get a court-issued subpoena.

This isn't really anything terribly new either. The government regardless of who the current president is will routinely go after individuals for (allaegedly) hurting coprorate profits. We saw it in the Napster/Limewire era, in the BitTorrent era and even with physical products far earlier than that. There's a ban on importing cars less than 25 years old because Mercedes-Benz dealerships lobbied for a law in the 1980s because too many people were importing them directly from Germany at a lower cost [2].

Heck, 60 years of Cuban embargoes and sanctions as well as the 1954 Guatemala coup were US efforts at the behest of the United Fruit Company. Same thing for oil and the 1953 Iranian coup.

[1]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/04/google-broke-its-promi...

[2]: https://www.jalopnik.com/the-25-year-import-rules-history-is...

like_any_other 4 hours ago|
> Defenders will say "they have to comply with the law" but there's compliance and then there's compliance.

More importantly, there's not spying on the user in the first place. The law doesn't force Google to spy, nor does it force Apple to lock consumers (for sure not "owners") out of their phones, so that they're left helpless when the CCP bans VPN and protest apps [1] (not to imply spying from Google alone isn't bad, before any other actors get involved).

[1] https://www.pcmag.com/news/apple-pulls-mapping-app-used-by-h...

tehjoker 4 hours ago|
This does seem like a fishing expedition though there is a facially legitimate purpose.

Fortunately, we have more powerful policy tools to clean the air than attacking individual gearheads... convert America to an electric car system. You need to attack these problems at the point of production. Consumption side approaches are petty and not very effective.

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