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Posted by reasonableklout 5 hours ago

I believe there are entire companies right now under AI psychosis(twitter.com)
https://xcancel.com/mitchellh/status/2055380239711457578

https://hachyderm.io/@mitchellh/116580433508108130

781 points | 339 commentspage 2
jimbokun 2 hours ago|
This reminds me of Rich Hickey’s “Simple Made Easy” and his approach in making Clojure.

Even before LLMs generating entire programs, complex frameworks allowed developers to write the initial versions of programs very quickly, but at the cost of being hard to understand and thus hard to debug or modify.

Some of us are betting that the AIs will always be smart enough to debug, maintain and modify the programs written by AI, no matter how convoluted or complex. I’m not so sure.

vadepaysa 4 hours ago||
"Just use autoresearch and it will fix your app's memory leaks in an hour" is what I was nonchalantly told by someone who has never written a line of code ever.

I guess what I relate to the most is how dismissive people get about real software engineering work.

I may have skill issues, but I am yet to reach the level of autonomous engineering people tend to expect out of AI these days.

nialse 5 hours ago||
I'm starting to long for the age after AI. When the generative euphoria has settled and all outputs are formally verified based on exquisite architectures and standards.
sph 4 hours ago||
> When [...] all outputs are formally verified based on exquisite architectures and standards

and we all live in a green utopia of flying cars and peace upon the world.

teraflop 2 hours ago|||

    I like to think,
    (it has to be!)
    of a cybernetic ecology
    where we are free of our labors
    and joined back to nature,
    returned to our mammal
    brothers and sisters,
    and all watched over
    by machines of loving grace.
-- Richard Brautigan (1967)
mvanbaak 4 hours ago|||
if all the resources spent in useless wars were poured into working towards this goal, we would be there for some time already
sph 4 hours ago||
Sure, but we should probably plan for what’s actually going to happen
dnnddidiej 2 hours ago|||
I like how you haven't wagered which exquisite architectures and standards. I am sure we will all agree on what they are and follow them the same way :)
senordevnyc 5 hours ago|||
Will never happen, for the exact reason that we’ve almost never done that for human output either.
sitkack 5 hours ago|||
it is required now, or all civilization collapses.
sph 4 hours ago|||
Civilization collapses unless people stop being short-sighted and greedy, trying to cut corners whenever possible?

I know which outcome I'd put my money on.

platinumrad 5 hours ago|||
You're going to have to expand on this one.
dghlsakjg 4 hours ago||
They are expressing the idea that AI is so effective that it will make human work redundant necessitating a decoupling of resource allocation as a reward for performing work.

I don’t agree, but that’s the thinking

nialse 5 hours ago||||
Another argument for less human-like AI then, I guess.
stego-tech 5 hours ago||
That’s literally just software though.
saltyoldman 5 hours ago|||
There was not a renaissance to move back to Assembly when Java sucked. Instead more Java developers were created.
DiscourseFan 5 hours ago|||
They are being developed, but it takes over a decade for this to happen normally
nunez 3 hours ago|||
Can't come fast enough
rvz 5 hours ago|||
Well a 2008 and a 2000 level financial crash is required for this. It is always during euphoric levels of delusion such events then occur.

...and it also needs more so-called AI companies present in the wreckage in this crash.

AI psychosis is undeniably real.

gizajob 4 hours ago||
The entire stock market is undergoing AI psychosis.
999900000999 5 hours ago||
This is the new normal. AI will continue to reduce the need for human workers until a Universal Basic Income is established.

At the end of the day robots can do the vast vast majority of jobs better and faster. If not now, very soon.

I only worry our economic systems won’t keep up

xantronix 4 hours ago|||
Because of the concerns you cite, I think working out the basic economic systems and incentives for paying people is a much more pressing concern than building magnificent machinery that we don't even own. There has been no effort on their end to demonstrate good faith nor to uphold their end of the social contract, which is why it's in our hands to demand the fundamentals to lead a life of dignity.
gizajob 4 hours ago||||
The exact same thing was meant to happen when the desktop computer became prevalent. Then the internet. Look at us now.
arcatech 4 hours ago||||
You’re forgetting the energy part of the equation.
risyachka 4 hours ago||||
Humans can already have 4 hour work week without productivity loss.

But I only see mass layoffs and those who are working - are working longer and harder then before.

techpression 4 hours ago||
Most CEOs in my feed are convinced that AI makes people the equivalent of entire departments. AI should make your life easier, but instead it’s the opposite for a lot of people in the work force, which makes me really sad.
Sharlin 4 hours ago||||
I think that’s called "hopium". Or wishful thinking, in less trendy language.
throwaway613746 4 hours ago|||
[dead]
flumpcakes 3 hours ago||
There's a lot of people writing bad code. With AI being forced top down (with the promise of turning people into 10x-ers), we're going to get a lot of people writing bad code 10x faster.

I really do worry - I especially worry about security. You thought supply chain security management was an impossible task with NPM? Let me introduce to AI - you can look forward to the days of AI poisoning where AIs will infiltrate, exfiltrate, or just destroy and there's no way of stopping it because you cannot examine the internals of the system.

AI has turbo charged people's lax attitude to security.

God help us.

mintplant 25 minutes ago|
Not security, but I ran into a related supply-chain issue recently. I needed a library to perform a moderately complex task, and found one in the ecosystem I was working with that had been around for a while, appeared reputable, and passed my cursory inspection. So I dropped it in, got the feature implemented, and moved on.

Some time down the line, I discover CPU being maxed out, which is showing up in degraded performance in other parts of the system. I investigate, and I trace the issue to a boneheaded busy loop in this library that no human with the domain expertise to implement the library would have written. Turns out I'd missed one deeply-buried mention in the README that maintenance was being done via AI now, and basically the whole library had been rewritten from the ground up from the reliable tool it used to be to a vibecoded imitation.

Yeah, yeah, sure, bad libraries existed before all this. But there used to be signals you picked up on to filter the gold from the dreck. Those signals don't work anymore.

sheepscreek 1 hour ago||
I have respect for Mitchel and I’ve spent a good deal of time trying to think of ways to justify his message. I can’t. Either I am missing a big piece or he is worrying about something that comes naturally as more software gets developed (and sooner).

In any case, this is what blue-green deployments and gradual rollouts are for. With basic software engineering processes, you can make your end user experience pretty much bullet proof. Just pay EXTRA attention when touching DNS, network config (for core systems) and database migrations.

Distributed systems are a bit more tricky but k8s and the likes have pretty solid release mechanisms built-in. You are still doomed if your CDN provider goes down. You just have to draw a line somewhere and face the reality head on (for X cost per year this is the level of redundancy we get, but it won’t save us from Y).

The one thing I hadn’t mentioned - one I AM worried about - is security! I’ve been worried about it from before Mythos (basic prompt injection) and with more powerful models now team offence is stronger than ever.

jnwatson 1 hour ago|
Yeah. The same processes that allow corporations to outsource their software to barely qualified 3rd-world body shops are the processes that allow you to deploy AI-generated code of unknown quality.
mattbrewsbytes 3 hours ago||
The race to invent variants of Gas Towns, Ralph loops, pump out videos, blogs, etc. showing off greenfield development with cleverly named agents running in parallel is another case of engineering people diving head first into Resume Driven Development.

Sure there are industry changing things going on. What if you're working on an app thats a decade old and has had different teams of people, styles, frameworks (thanks to the JS-framework-a-week Resume Driven Development)? Some markdown docs and a loop of agents isn't going to help when humans have trouble understanding what the app does.

apalmer 3 hours ago||
I don't think it's helpful to call this psychosis. N Beyond that I don't think it's even irrational.

It is definitely factual that there is a complete paradigm shift in the prioritization of quality in software. It's beyond just AI side effects, and now its own stand alone thing.

There have always been many industries, companies, and products who are low on quality scale but so cheap that it makes good business sense, both for the producer and the consumer.

Definitely many companies are explicitly chosing this business strategy. Definitely also many companies that don't actually realize they are implicitly doing this.

Wether the market will accept the new software quality paradigm or not remains an open question.

mmaunder 3 hours ago||
Amazing how the dev community is suffering from a similar inability to approach the subject of real world AI efficiencies and business benefits. I don’t think it’s helpful to accuse the other side of psychosis. It disqualifies any data or experience they bring to the conversation.
whimsicalism 2 hours ago|
It is not the dev community writ large, it is a particular archetype among forum users, particularly common among forums with upvote mechanics
sometimelurker 1 hour ago||
I'd like to chime in and mention that its really obvious how to RL a coding agent to get the human addicted asap. and its also clear that there's a ton of $$$ to be made by doing this. therefore its done. the only LLMs I use are the ones I run locally because i know they aren't RL'ed for that metric (no incentive for the company that made them to make their open weights models addictive)
hooo 4 hours ago|
Why do you all still submit twitter.com links when that domain does not even work?
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