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Posted by TheEdonian 16 hours ago

I don't think AI will make your processes go faster(frederickvanbrabant.com)
515 points | 366 commentspage 2
bybydev 1 hour ago|
Worked at a place that spent a ton on an AI automation platform for a process that took 3 weeks. After months of setup, it still took 3 weeks. Nobody had bothered to map out that the real holdup was legal waiting 4 days for clarifications from the business side. AI can't fix bad inputs. Bottlenecks should receive predictable high quality inputs, that's the whole thing in one sentence.
gwbas1c 10 hours ago||
I've found that AI is extremely useful when coding: For example, a task that used to take 3 days I can now do in about a day, in part because I can do things like have the agent write tests, or because I can have the agent start from some higher-level instructions which I can then clean up and debug.

BUT: The article is 100% right that I spend a lot of time doing other tasks: Reviewing other teammates' work, interacting with colleagues, planning, ect. AI isn't quite as helpful there. For example, I find that co-pilot code reviews don't add a lot of value; and the AI isn't good at judging a UI.

Maybe we'll get there soon? It's starting to look like the biggest challenge with AI is learning how to use it correctly.

giancarlostoro 9 hours ago||
AI is not supposed to bypass the process, but it can speed up things nonetheless, it can help with refactoring, writing boilerplate, finding errors you never even spotted before, and things that linters cannot catch.

I see so many comments that seem to me like either they don't use standard known processes, or they assume AI doesn't need you to follow the standards.

Can I ship more code and features? Absolutely I can, if I have a good set of requirements, and thorough testing. All AI written code needs to be reviewed and tested, and should be in discrete commits and pull requests, anyone pushing a PR with thousands of lines of code is a red flag, you wouldn't do it without AI, why would you do it with AI? Major rewrites / refactors are the only known exception, and even then I would argue that these should still have discrete commits you can switch to so you can see how things changed, and make a more informed decision.

If you show me a massive one shot commit or PR I will deny it. Break it down into bits a normal developer can audit.

0xbadcafebee 6 hours ago||
The Gantt shown is an example of Waterfall, or some other method where there's a final destination for the software. 99.999% of software today is not made that way.

In modern software development, there is no destination. On a 2-week basis, the business decides to change what the software is supposed to do. New features. New integrations. Changed features. Upgraded/replaced components. Larger scale. Different hosting.

Over years, the software is fundamentally altered. Quality and testing goes out the window. There's a constant slog, not only of trying to deal with modifications in an ad-hoc way, but also in fighting entropy. The software becomes a living being, which gets injured, changes its lifestyle, ages. The company is a custodian of a monster, like a zoo keeper, trying to keep the depressed animal alive.

Since humans are creatures of habit, all the same problems will happen with AI. But everything will be a little bit faster, and code reviews will make code a little bit better. But simultaneously, a lack of good tests and the desire for faster deployment will make everything a little bit worse. This push and pull will result in about the same level of software quality, but moving slightly faster. So in the end we will have a faster process. But nobody will really notice, because the rest remains a slog. We will all probably get burnt out faster.

It's complex for a reason, and you can't remove the complexity without removing the reasons. You can't solve business problems with tools.

sillysaurusx 15 hours ago||
I actually have data on this. I’ve been building sharc, a Common Lisp port of Hacker News. https://www.github.com/shawwn/sharc

If that sounds familiar, it’s because it’s what dang did over the course of several years.

It’s taken a few weeks. I started right around May, and now it’s able to render large HN threads (900+ comments) within a factor of five of production HN performance. (Thank you to dang for giving actual performance numbers to compare against.)

A couple days ago, mostly out of curiosity, I ran Claude with “/goal make this as fast as HN.” Somewhat surprisingly, it got the job done within a couple hours. I kept the experiment on separate branches, because the code is a mess, just like all AI generated code starts as. But the remarkable part is that it worked, and I can technically claim to have recreated HN within a few weeks.

The real work is in the specifications. My port of HN is missing around a hundred features. Things from favorited comments, to hiding threads, to being able to unvote and re-vote.

But catching up to HN is clearly a matter of effort (time spent actually working on the problem with Claude), not complexity. Each feature in isolation is relatively easy. Getting them all done within a short time span without ruining the codebase is the hard part. And I think that’s where a lot of people get tripped up: you can do a lot, but you have to manage it tightly, or else the codebase explodes into an unreadable mess.

It’s true that if you don’t do that crucial step of “manage the results”, you’ll end up making more work for yourself in the long run, by a large factor. But it’s also true that AI sped me up so much that I was able to do in weeks what would’ve otherwise taken years (and did take dang years). I’m not claiming parity, just that I got close enough to be an interesting comparison point.

AI can clearly accelerate us. But we need to be disciplined in how we use it, just like any other new tool. That doesn’t change the fact that it does work, and I think people might be underestimating how good the results can be.

rpdillon 14 hours ago||
I've had a handful of software projects in my career land essentially on the day I predicted, sometimes several months out, and the commonality across all of those projects was that the specification was crystal clear. Two of them were actual ports of an existing piece of software over to a new system. And so any time we had a question about the implementation, we could look at the existing version and immediately have our questions answered about what "correct" was.

I think projects where correct is very clearly defined can benefit from LLM acceleration, as you're describing here.

But so much of modern software development is figuring out what the right thing to build is. And in those situations, I don't think LLMs provide nearly as much benefit.

wijej 13 hours ago|||
I think the role of llm’s is once you have a rich enough understanding of what you want - you can speed run to build it. And then perhaps re-build to cover the issues created by the llm.

Problem for model producers is - the revenues they get from this mode of work is tiny relative to what they need.

skydhash 14 hours ago|||
And there's a few domains where the spec is clear and the solution kinda easy to implement. But it breaks the contract with your users or downstream projects and you now have to coordinate communication. Code rarely exists in isolation.
wijej 13 hours ago||
“ AI can clearly accelerate us. But we need to be disciplined in how we use it,”

Therein lies the paradox. And the problem is, interacting with llm’s is akin to a slot machine.

And on top of that, llm producers want you to view it that way - that’s how they generate revenue and can play games

ryanmcbride 10 hours ago||
Been having conversations like this with a client I've worked with. They get approved by corporate for us to use claude and ask how much faster we'll be able to move with it.

I tell them "Us engineers will probably be able to deliver some of our stuff faster but it won't have even a slight effect on the actual deliverable because we've never been the bottle neck", it's the fact that the process to get an S3 bucket allocated takes (not exaggerating) 4 weeks there.

BoxedEmpathy 7 hours ago|
This matches my experience. My previous position was at a FAANG and sometimes getting a VPN link setup for a new host would take a month of approvals.

Writing actual code was maybe 10-20% of what I did. Most of it was meetings, design review, authorization requests, etc

ivansmf 14 hours ago||
The article severely underestimates deployment times for large, world wide services. Usually the strategy is to have a smaller "blast radius" for deployments and going in stages that are also usually time bound ("let it bake"). It also does not account for outages and fixing things you only find in deployment. Programming languages like Python it using injection in Java (e.g. using Guice) either need pristine testing, and all test teams were converted to dev 20 years ago, or have a magical way to destroy all the help compilers and static analysis can give you. So yeah, you take the 4 weeks of development from your 6 month deployment, then add 6 weeks of debugging and retries by using AI. You're welcome that will be 3 million tokens, of which you wrote 1k, the rest was system prompts and "reasoning", which you do not control. This whole AI space is highly fixable, but requires investment no one seems to be willing to do, particularly in areas that were mistakes from the past.
adam_patarino 16 hours ago||
> Every software developer knows that you can’t make projects go faster just by typing faster. If that were the case we would all be taking typing lessons.

So well said.

AI is unveiling how the bureaucracy is the slow part.

jagged-chisel 16 hours ago|
> AI is unveiling how the bureaucracy is the slow part.

Computing has been doing that for decades. If your process is fucked, computers make it fucked faster.

It’s just that now, we have entire generations alive that have never seem a world without digital computers. ~LLMs~ AI is a fun new lever in some uses so clearly it is finally the hammer that will drive the screws and bolts for us, with less effort on our part!

They just have to learn from experience. It’s what you do when you can’t be bothered to learn the lessons of the past.

steveBK123 15 hours ago|||
Bureaucracy cannot learn the problems of the past with bureaucracy because it is against their self interest.

Work in large orgs long enough and you will recognize these creatures. Ladder climbing is a skill orthogonal to adding any value to the customer/company.

adam_patarino 15 hours ago|||
Completely agree. It amazes me how some folks think AI is unlike any other technology revolution. History repeats.
cmrdporcupine 15 hours ago||
You're right it's just like any other mechanization/automation revolution. Except it's not.

It's happening about 10x faster than any other I've seen or read about.

Conceive how long it took just to get barcode scanners rolled out in grocery stores. Or direct payment terminals. Or how many decades it's been getting robotics into the manufacturing of cars at scale. I worked through the .com boom and I can tell you that "webification" took 10 years or more for most businesses (and many of them now just gave up and just have a Facebook page instead etc)

This is a little insane what's happening now. It really does change everything. People who don't work in software I don't think have any idea what's coming.

steveBK123 15 hours ago||
It both is & isn't moving 10x faster.

It's highly salient to management, and being forced top-down by them at 10x speed, for sure, because they see a future cost save to reduce headcount.

For certain technical roles its a force multiplier and already very saturated for sure.

On the other hand there's a lot of solution-looking-for-problem going on in large orgs where layers of management have been banging the table for 2-3 years on AI KPIs without any value being delivered.

In the weekly AI wins mail at a friends company, multiple non-technicals were bragging how AI has saved them 15 minutes a day by summarizing their morning inbox. This was the big game changer for them.

pvtmert 10 hours ago||
Absolutely lovely article.

> Software development is about translating a problem into a solution that a computer can understand and automatically resolve. Preferably in a secure and scalable way.

True, meanwhile software engineering puts optional bit into the requirements bucket. (ie. Secure & Scalable)

---

For the problem description and gathering requirements sentiment; I don't think we'll _ever_ have a 100% proper way of doing this. If we did, we'd basically solve any and all problems in the world.

Nevertheless, I think AI can help with investigating and exploring the problem space. Especially when the problem is an already solved thing that the prompter hasn't gained enough expertise yet.

Moreover, I think (and keep mentioning) we will see different kind of models in the near future. Those would be more specialized per industry, per language (both programming and human languages), even per field.

Those will open up newer areas for employment & job market. Something like an "AI-trainer" but more of a knowledge-worker style. Although this can also be automated with LLMs, the limits on context length/size plus amount of compute required to re-train the models to iterate faster both are quite heavy.

rustystump 9 hours ago|
That last paragraph sounds like a meta vp explaining to the engineers why it is important to log all their keystrokes and eye movements. Pinky promise we wont fire you.

The trend I DO see at least based on JDs is a whole lots of “agents” which are glorified claude code but in the cloud with tools focus on a given industry or domain. If this is what you mean, then you are correct.

pu_pe 15 hours ago|
Some organizations added a ton of process around software development because it is expensive and risky. They require a ton of approvals and sign-offs, then some managing overhead on top to check if their investment is on the right track. This approval process is bound to change by the fact that development is far cheaper and faster now.

Another aspect that is not captured here is that the lawyers and subject matter experts will also be using AI to speed up their parts.

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